The Bitter Rivals Thread

[SDL]

15-9 in the 7th with a Papi Bullpen Blast! (sounds like a new DeAngelo's combo meal). And now 16-7 with a Drew HR!!!

Damn...

I'm now drooling at the thought of a Inside Pokket from D'Angelos....

[SDL]

The magic number is...

13

A salute to former Sox SS John Valentin and to fan favorite Lou Merloni who wore it during his second stint with the Sox in '03..

[Mattingly]

Tied as we speak at 9-9. Some guy who was fortunate to escape the Yankee organization...I think his name is Lowell...4 for 4 so far in the game.

How many times are you going to conveniently ignore the truth. Wakefield was knocked out of the game after 3 IP. We beat your 3 best pitchers (Beckett, Matsuzaka and Schill), and Alex Rodriguez is looking like the runaway MVP, playing 3B. Which part of these are hard to understand for you?

Yes, Lowell is good. You wish to compare him to Alex Rodriguez, go ahead. No more of that "Nomah is better" stuff either. We don't talk lame junk like that.

Right now, if not for their total bullpen collapse, TB was looking to take 2 of 3 from Boston. Rubber match tomorrow.

The magic number is...

13

A salute to former Sox SS John Valentin and to fan favorite Lou Merloni who wore it during his second stint with the Sox in '03..

What number do you get if you double that #13?

Anyway, you sure that #13 isn't a tribute to the best third bagger in the American League? Alexander the Great!

[SDL]

How many times are you going to conveniently ignore the truth. Wakefield was knocked out of the game after 3 IP. We beat your 3 best pitchers (Beckett, Matsuzaka and Schill), and Alex Rodriguez is looking like the runaway MVP, playing 3B. Which part of these are hard to understand for you?

Yes, Lowell is good. You wish to compare him to Alex Rodriguez, go ahead. No more of that "Nomah is better" stuff either. We don't talk lame junk like that.

Right now, if not for their total bullpen collapse, TB was looking to take 2 of 3 from Boston. Rubber match tomorrow.

What number do you get if you double that #13?

Anyway, you sure that #13 isn't a tribute to the best third bagger in the American League? Alexander the Great!

Hey..how many rings does A-Rod have? The man is a CURSE, I tell ya!

13 x 2 is 26...worn by stars of the past such as Earl Wilson who threw a no-no for the Sox...Bill Henry, who is NOT dead, and Reggie Cleveland who, had Zimmer not had a personal dislike of him and sold him to Texas just before the '78 season started, might have made sure we didn't blow that 14 game lead that year...

Also worn by the great Bruins defenseman of those Stanley Cup teams of '70 and '72..Don Awrey!

[Mattingly]

Hey..how many rings does A-Rod have? The man is a CURSE, I tell ya!

13 x 2 is 26...worn by stars of the past such as Earl Wilson who threw a no-no for the Sox...Bill Henry, who is NOT dead, and Reggie Cleveland who, had Zimmer not had a personal dislike of him and sold him to Texas just before the '78 season started, might have made sure we didn't blow that 14 game lead that year...

Also worn by the great Bruins defenseman of those Stanley Cup teams of '70 and '72..Don Awrey!

I'm curious, when are you going to answer things other than those parts of a question which favor you? Such as the ones I'd asked?

I'm not the least bit concerned here about any Pats, Bruins or Celtics players. This is a baseball forum, not some NE fan section.

You'd mentioned Mike Lowell going 4-for-4. That's fine. I'd mentioned Alex Rodriguez. Did you read that part? Do you wish to compare Lowell to Rodriguez? Yes or no? Who's looking like the runaway AL MVP candidate? Can you even admit who this is w/o changing the topic? Let me start it off.

Lowell has 18 jacks and 103 RBI. Compare that to Alex' 52 and 140 RBI, then an OPS that's almost 1.100. That's about .220 higher. One is a very good hitting third bagger most teams would enjoy having. Another is an elite athlete.

BTW, Don Zimmer was your manager. Who was the GM in 1978? Did Zim have a role in Reggie Cleveland's trade? If so, please specify.

So a RS fan is calling the Yanks cursed? This despite nothing from 1919 through 2003? That's quite a few years. So a 32-yr-old player is cursed? You sure you haven't been believing too much of the anti-A-Rod stuff the Yankee-hating media pours out? How would you describe Ted Williams, Carl Yasztremski and Barry Bonds then? I really can't stand bringing up their names, but none of them have any rings either. Nothing can ever change that.

I really think you need to put this anti-Yankee thing in perspective, since it's just a game.

[SDL]

I'm curious, when are you going to answer things other than those parts of a question which favor you? Such as the ones I'd asked?

I'm not the least bit concerned here about any Pats, Bruins or Celtics players. This is a baseball forum, not some NE fan section.

You'd mentioned Mike Lowell going 4-for-4. That's fine. I'd mentioned Alex Rodriguez. Did you read that part? Do you wish to compare Lowell to Rodriguez? Yes or no? Who's looking like the runaway AL MVP candidate? Can you even admit who this is w/o changing the topic?

BTW, Don Zimmer was your manager. Who was the GM in 1978?

So a RS fan is calling the Yanks cursed? This despite nothing from 1919 through 2003? That's quite a few years. So a 32-yr-old player is cursed? You sure you haven't been believing too much of the anti-A-Rod stuff the Yankee-hating media pours out? How would you describe Ted Williams, Carl Yasztremski and Barry Bonds then?

I really think you need to put this anti-Yankee thing in perspective, since it's just a game.

I'd take Lowell over A-Rod in a second. Lowell already has a WS ring (2003 ring a bell?) and maybe he never got that much ink playing down in Hell--oops--The Stadium Formerly Known As Joe Robbie but I'd rather have him than Mr. Overpriced. You bet I'm glad we never made the Manny & Lester for A-Rod deal.

Maybe A-Rod will get the MVP..that's yet TBD. But look how Seattle actually played better for a while AFTER they let him go..same goes for the Rangers the season he left. Sure, he's been to the post-season with you guys...but he doesn't have any rings, does he?

I can say the Yanks have been cursed lately...six post-season chokes in a row? Yankees taking lessons from the Buffalo Bills of the 90s?

Zimmer wasn't technically the Sox GM; the GM was Zimmer(unofficially) and Haywood Sullivan. Those two clowns were joined at the hip. Didn't help that those two had their own PR firm on radio..two hack writers; Larry Claflin & Clif Keane aka "Clif & Claf." (we had a better name, I'm sure Ken F remembers what it was, but I won't say it here). Those two more or less were the voice of the front office and they were a joke...they reflected Haywood and The Gerbil. Not a surprise a few years later that after Haywood and The Gerbil were finally ousted at Fenway, Clif & Claf's show was cancelled. I personally hold Haywood & the Gerbil responsible for the '78 fiasco.

[Mattingly]

I'd take Lowell over A-Rod in a second. Lowell already has a WS ring (2003 ring a bell?) and maybe he never got that much ink playing down in Hell--oops--The Stadium Formerly Known As Joe Robbie but I'd rather have him than Mr. Overpriced. You bet I'm glad we never made the Manny & Lester for A-Rod deal.

Maybe A-Rod will get the MVP..that's yet TBD. But look how Seattle actually played better for a while AFTER they let him go..same goes for the Rangers the season he left. Sure, he's been to the post-season with you guys...but he doesn't have any rings, does he?

I can say the Yanks have been cursed lately...six post-season chokes in a row? Yankees taking lessons from the Buffalo Bills of the 90s?

Zimmer wasn't technically the Sox GM; the GM was Zimmer(unofficially) and Haywood Sullivan. Those two clowns were joined at the hip. Didn't help that those two had their own PR firm on radio..two hack writers; Larry Claflin & Clif Keane aka "Clif & Claf." (we had a better name, I'm sure Ken F remembers what it was, but I won't say it here). Those two more or less were the voice of the front office and they were a joke...they reflected Haywood and The Gerbil. Not a surprise a few years later that after Haywood and The Gerbil were finally ousted at Fenway, Clif & Claf's show was cancelled. I personally hold Haywood & the Gerbil responsible for the '78 fiasco.

I guess we could argue all day, argue all night. I have better things to do.

You prefer Lowell; I prefer Rodriguez. Anything unexpected about this? I say not.

I remember when Red Sox fans complained about how often Yankee fans mentioned "Rings", and who's talking about them now? You, that's who.

6 seasons w/o a WS ring? What were you saying when "1918" was yelled back and forth? Wasn't that slightly more than 6 seasons? Now who's talking about curses?

If you prefer not to mention (or even acknowledge) 1919-2003, it's up to you. That's quite a few more than 6 seasons, but freely sidestep whichever facts you so choose.

As to the '78 fiasco, feel free to discuss this under either "History" or the "Red Sox" forums. I'm sure that others will share their views.

For the Seattle Mariners, have you ever heard of Ichiro Suzuki? He was never a teammate of Alex', but he did have a major influence upon Seattle winning 116 games & reaching the ALCS in 2001. However, Alex Rodriguez has helped the Yanks make the playoffs a few times also. Has Seattle done better than the Yanks since 2001?

I've got better things to do here than argue about every single thing, especially since it was quite a few Red Sox fans who'd insisted that one certain "curse" hadn't existed.

It's been almost 21 years for the Mets. Are they cursed? Believe what you want to believe. All I know is that I'd prefer to love baseball, the Yankees and other local teams, rather than hating other teams. Enjoy.

[SDL]

The magic number is now 12

I salute Jose Tartabull who wore #12 in '67 and made THE throw of the year to get Ken Berry out at the plate in a game against the other Sox.

(and as you know, somebody else in Boston/NEW ENGLAND wears #12 )

Hmm...I could possibly see a clincher in person at The Trop

[Williamsburg2599]

The magic number is now 12

I salute Jose Tartabull who wore #12 in '67 and made THE throw of the year to get Ken Berry out at the plate in a game against the other Sox.

(and as you know, somebody else in Boston/NEW ENGLAND wears #12 )

Hmm...I could possibly see a clincher in person at The Trop

Your acting like it was just another win, but then again, It was ANOTHER Big Papi walk-off...Boring!

[SDL]

Your acting like it was just another win, but then again, It was ANOTHER Big Papi walk-off...Boring!

Something tells me that this weekend The Evil Empire is going to be praying that if they have a slim lead in the 9th that Ortiz doesn't some up to bat...

[Mattingly]

Have any managers ever figured out that David Ortiz is a game-ending machine? Why does nobody walk him? It's like I'm looking at reruns of horror movies, yet the pretty girl always runs up the flight of stairs where the ghoul is. The audience says "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" but she runs upstairs towards the ghoul, like on cue.

Only Tampa Bay's bullpen could turn a blowout game (8-1) into a reverse rout (16-10). With a base open, why don't people believe in walking Ortiz?

Oh well, our guys rested on Monday; yours on Thursday. Let the final showdown between teams begin, and hopefully, it'll be as peaceful at Fenway this weekend as it will be at BBF during the same time.

[SDL]

Have any managers ever figured out that David Ortiz is a game-ending machine? Why does nobody walk him? It's like I'm looking at reruns of horror movies, yet the pretty girl always runs up the flight of stairs where the ghoul is. The audience says "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" but she runs upstairs towards the ghoul, like on cue.

Only Tampa Bay's bullpen could turn a blowout game (8-1) into a reverse rout (16-10). With a base open, why don't people believe in walking Ortiz?

Oh well, our guys rested on Monday; yours on Thursday. Let the final showdown between teams begin, and hopefully, it'll be as peaceful at Fenway this weekend as it will be at BBF during the same time.

Evidently other managers are dumb not see how how dangerous Big Papi is

[Mattingly]

Evidently other managers are dumb not see how how dangerous Big Papi is

Sometimes I'd like to count the ever-present "Clueless Joe" (as the scribes deemed him) amongst them. I don't remember the game, but it was around Game 5 or 6 in 2004. Flash was up, Papi leading off. Good record vs Ortiz, so he pitched to him. BOOM! Tied game. A walk and a single later, it was a tied game, corner runners, no out. Fine time to bring in Mo in the 8th inning. :o

Anyway, if I were the TB manager, I had a 1-run lead, especially since Manny's out of the lineup, why in the world would you pitch to Ortiz? Yes, he's had sore shoulder & back problems earlier in the year. Did he change his name to "Mr Pencil-Necked Geek" and have a calculator in his shirt pocket? Thick-rimmed glasses also.

Anyway, perhaps I'm over dramatizing it, but why not just put him on 1B? This forces him out of the game, since Tito uses a pinch runner, and allows a game-ending DP, since there's 1 out. If Pedroa scores, no more Ortiz. Seems like a win-win thing to me.

Nobody listens to that stuff. They all want their closer to go one-on-one with Ortiz. It's like drag racing your luxury sedan (Town Car, etc) against a Vette or a Mustang. Guess who wins, tells you what the towns a few miles ahead are before you even get up to speed?

Let's see if my boys can break out the brooms vs Toronto, a team that somehow manages to be their undoing.

[hellborn]

The magic number is now 12

I salute Jose Tartabull who wore #12 in '67 and made THE throw of the year to get Ken Berry out at the plate in a game against the other Sox.

(and as you know, somebody else in Boston/NEW ENGLAND wears #12 )

Hmm...I could possibly see a clincher in person at The Trop

That was also Mark Bellhorn's number...he of the 3 run opposite field shot off Lieber in the bloody sock game, and the ringing blast off the foul pole to restore order after Pedro showed us that the Yanks were still his Daddy.
Mark could have ruined things by actually playing for the Yanks the next year, but that ended up being a brief and almost unnoticed episode.

If I'm Maddon, why walk Ortiz in a game that is totally meaningless to the Rays...see if the young man can get the big stick out in the tight situation. Find out if the kids can get it done when things are tight. If it doesn't happen, so they win 69 instead of 70 games this year. I mean, don't lose the game on purpose, but just play the game straight and see if your closer can really get the big out.

[JMAbosoxfan]

Mattingly - Why they pitched to Ortiz

If you walk Ortiz, you end up with a runner in scoring position where a single will tie it. In this case the next batter would have been Youkilis, who this year has a .457 slugging pct., a .391 OBP, and hits well with men on base. So it is not unreasonable to pitch carefully to Ortiz in that situation - prior to the at bat he had no walk offs this year, a bum knee, and so forth. That's what Tampa Bay did. Ortiz hit a pitch that was out of the strike zone, high, and but for the RF's miscue, the game would have been over. Walking him to get to Youkilis would have been perfectly reasonable too. A tough call, a nice piece of hitting, and a breeze from the Almighty...