The Bitter Rivals Thread

[SDL]

That's OK, young fella. If my ideal wish comes true, it'll take 3 more games:

Two for the Rays to bedevil Beantown and celebrate on Fenway's lawn, and one more for Torre to be unable to spit in anyone's face but his own.

With the Yankees missing the playoffs, I will do like a 1919-2003 Beantowner, and I will root against the archrival. I will take a Rays-Phanatics WS once a day, every day, twice on Sundays. All I want is for Beantown to get back on the losing track, and let it end in Game 5 at Fenway.

If that happens and the Philly Phanatics silence Torre and the LA-LA Dodgers, I'll be one very happy camper. Not one team will be able to talk smack to Yankee fans, and we have tons of Yankee fans in St Petersberg & Tampa Bay.

Awww gee, Matt. Are you mad at Torre because he's in the playoffs and Joey Pitbull ain't?

[efin98]

That's OK, young fella. If my ideal wish comes true, it'll take 3 more games:

It ain't over until it's over...you should know that better than anyone.

Where's a fly swatter when you need one?

[Mattingly]

Awww gee, Matt. Are you mad at Torre because he's in the playoffs and Joey Pitbull ain't?

Yeah, well I never thought that Girardi would get us into the playoffs anyway. It took him awhile to adjust, and he had a much larger payroll team to deal with than before. At least he never had any ugly moments with Cashman or the young Steins, unlike his Loria days with Florida.

This Beantown moment is brought to you by the military bugle players stationed around the world.



Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. After last night's game, Beantown is surely a bust!

No a single Beantowner had 2 hits all night, but 4 Rays had 2 hits and Aybar had 5 hits. OK, enough smackey-poo for one night. I'll have to hope that tomorrow is just as enjoyable (if possible).

*hopes that they don't write me up for posting this*

[Mattingly]

It ain't over until it's over...you should know that better than anyone.

Where's a fly swatter when you need one?

Yeah, I know it's not over. After those ugly "last four games" from you-know-when, I know that all too well. However, I'm willing to go out on a limb (and hope that it doesn't fall off the tree) and say that Wednesday & Thursday will be very good days for me.

[SDL]

It ain't over until the fat lady sings...and I have not heard my ex since '84; I doubt I'll be hearing her voice anytime soon.

Matt...what happened in the ALCS four years ago? Who was down 3-0? Hmmmm?

[efin98]

Yeah, I know it's not over. After those ugly "last four games" from you-know-when, I know that all too well. However, I'm willing to go out on a limb (and hope that it doesn't fall off the tree) and say that Wednesday & Thursday will be very good days for me.

That's a long, skinny limb considering LAST YEAR TOO...oh wait, I forgot that you have blocked out anything that isn't related to the bums in the Bronx

[efin98]

Yeah, well I never thought that Girardi would get us into the playoffs anyway. It took him awhile to adjust, and he had a much larger payroll team to deal with than before. At least he never had any ugly moments with Cashman or the young Steins, unlike his Loria days with Florida.

Sure you didn't think that

[efin98]

It ain't over until the fat lady sings...and I have not heard my ex since '84; I doubt I'll be hearing her voice anytime soon.

Matt...what happened in the ALCS four years ago? Who was down 3-0? Hmmmm?

Or last year...everyone seems to forget last year.

And the fat lady hasn't sung yet...my sister and cousin have been taking vocal lessons though(women are a combined 600 pounds!) h

[Mattingly]

It ain't over until the fat lady sings...and I have not heard my ex since '84; I doubt I'll be hearing her voice anytime soon.

Matt...what happened in the ALCS four years ago? Who was down 3-0? Hmmmm?

In Game 3, despite it being a blowout, nobody was rested. Game 4 was the elimination game, so adding extra emphasis to this by keeping starters in seemed meaningless to me. The bench should practically have been empty for the end of Game 3, but Torre never did this.

Neither Mel Stottlemyre (pitch coach) nor Joe Torre called for a pitch out in Game 4. No IBB either, and when you're desperate for a win, that's what 'd do. The tying run scored. Then Tom Gordon was absolutely horrible (which Torre never seemed to realize), leading to Rivera's overuse.

I went over this in a thread on te Yankee forum asking us if we were rooting for Joe Torre. Let's just say that I'm not a Joe Torre fan.

I was told that in the last game vs the Phillies, with a 2-run lead, 2 ducks on the pond and only 1 out, Torre let a reliever hit for himself. Would a self-respecting NL manager not do a double-switch at that time? I don't care if it's just a pinch hitter, it's that same bullpen mismanagement I saw as a Yankee fan and one I knew we'd keep on seeing unless he was gone. Torre has managed the Braves, Mets and Cards, so he's well familiar with NL managing.

All managers have faults, but Torre's lack of in-game decision-making skills seem very predictable. He'll always give great soundbites in his very interesting voice, but one that too often comes up short in big games like this.

That last game was an absolute must-win that could've tied the series, and he was leading the game in the 7th, and that same reliever, he took out in the 8th, putting in a guy who'd thrown 30+ pitches the day before. To me, that's the Joe Torre that I didn't want back. Instead of a 2-2 series, he now has to win three elimination games.

Yes, the Yanks failed in 2004, but think that Game 4 was very winnable.

[Mattingly]

That's a long, skinny limb considering LAST YEAR TOO...oh wait, I forgot that you have blocked out anything that isn't related to the bums in the Bronx

Learn ya baseball. Dem Bums played in Brooklyn, since they couldn't win until 1955, but were always beloved.

Yes, it's a limb, and when Cleveland got that 3rd win, I kept wishing we'd have played them in an LCS, like we did in 1998. The 5-game series hurt us, since hving a 7-game LDS would've allowed us to come back against them. You folks had that 7-game advantage in the LCS that we didn't.

Boston only had to win 2 more games when Cleveland won its 3rd game, didn't they? Right now, your saving grace is that poker-faced Matsuzaka is pitching. However, Tampa Bay has lots of momentum on its side and has unexpectedly slammed Lester. I have no idea who Boston has for Games 6 & 7, if it goes that far, but they cannot possibly trot out Wakefield again (if even anytime next season).

I'll just hope for both series to end tonight and tomorrow, and that there be a big celebration on the home team's infield by the visiting players. I'll just hope that the limb I'm balancing on is a lower branch on a solid & steady oak tree.

[Mattingly]

Sure you didn't think that

I hoped they would, and at times, I believed they would, but too many games were lost to impatient batting. That and our rotation was never that good the past few years, other than Wang and Moose. Didn't exactly seem like a formula for success, especially when some of the younger guys like Cabrera and Cano weren't very disciplined at the plate.

I'll label 2008 as a lost season, especially since there are many contracts coming off the books, such as Giambi, Damon, and Matsui's contract is finished next season. I doubt we'll see Pettitte again.

At least 2009 is something to look forward to.

[SDL]

I hoped they would, and at times, I believed they would, but too many games were lost to impatient batting. That and our rotation was never that good the past few years, other than Wang and Moose. Didn't exactly seem like a formula for success, especially when some of the younger guys like Cabrera and Cano weren't very disciplined at the plate.

I'll label 2008 as a lost season, especially since there are many contracts coming off the books, such as Giambi, Damon, and Matsui's contract is finished next season. I doubt we'll see Pettitte again.

At least 2009 is something to look forward to.

Damon's a free agent?

No thanks, we don't want him back in Fenway. Besides, somebody else now wears #18...

And speaking of ex-Yankees (and I hope my fellow Sawx fans don't hate me for mentioning this), what was the name of that catcher you guys gave up to get the Big Unit from the D'backs? Navarro, right?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

In Game 3, despite it being a blowout, nobody was rested. Game 4 was the elimination game, so adding extra emphasis to this by keeping starters in seemed meaningless to me. The bench should practically have been empty for the end of Game 3, but Torre never did this.

Neither Mel Stottlemyre (pitch coach) nor Joe Torre called for a pitch out in Game 4. No IBB either, and when you're desperate for a win, that's what 'd do. The tying run scored. Then Tom Gordon was absolutely horrible (which Torre never seemed to realize), leading to Rivera's overuse.

I went over this in a thread on te Yankee forum asking us if we were rooting for Joe Torre. Let's just say that I'm not a Joe Torre fan.

I was told that in the last game vs the Phillies, with a 2-run lead, 2 ducks on the pond and only 1 out, Torre let a reliever hit for himself. Would a self-respecting NL manager not do a double-switch at that time? I don't care if it's just a pinch hitter, it's that same bullpen mismanagement I saw as a Yankee fan and one I knew we'd keep on seeing unless he was gone. Torre has managed the Braves, Mets and Cards, so he's well familiar with NL managing.

All managers have faults, but Torre's lack of in-game decision-making skills seem very predictable. He'll always give great soundbites in his very interesting voice, but one that too often comes up short in big games like this.

That last game was an absolute must-win that could've tied the series, and he was leading the game in the 7th, and that same reliever, he took out in the 8th, putting in a guy who'd thrown 30+ pitches the day before. To me, that's the Joe Torre that I didn't want back. Instead of a 2-2 series, he now has to win three elimination games.

Yes, the Yanks failed in 2004, but think that Game 4 was very winnable.

My mind, most of his years with the Yanks Joe seemed to make the right move more often then not. His last couple of years in NY, not very good, over managed at times.

[Mattingly]

Damon's a free agent?

No thanks, we don't want him back in Fenway. Besides, somebody else now wears #18...

And speaking of ex-Yankees (and I hope my fellow Sawx fans don't hate me for mentioning this), what was the name of that catcher you guys gave up to get the Big Unit from the D'backs? Navarro, right?

To my knowldge, Damon's a free agent. He joined in 2005 or 2006? I think it was Unit who joined in 2005, and the Yanks gave Damon a 4 year deal, which was less than his requested z years.

I'm unsure of Damon's history with Daon's #18, whether he wore this in KC or not (KC Ghost may know), but Matsuzaka's #18 came from some legendary Japanese pitcher, so it was his honor and pride to wear this. Even if Damon had remained in Boston, he'd have had to give up that number anyway.

Yes, Dioneer Navarro was the catcher the Yanks traded to get Unit, along with Javier Vazquez. Go to baseball-reference.com and click on "Transactions" under the player profiles for full info.

I think that Navarro could've been better used to get Beckett when he was available. That seemed like a great odea at the time. However, ex-Yankee Mike Lowell, who was traded away once the Yanks realized that Scott Brosius was more than just a seat warmer, was thrown into the Beckett deal as a forced duo. Now they're both hurt. Another one of my bright ideas down the drain.

Now let's see if Navarro is still on the Yankee payroll.

[efin98]

Learn ya baseball. Dem Bums played in Brooklyn, since they couldn't win until 1955, but were always beloved.

Don't tell me to learn anything.

Dem Bums is not the bums...