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Best/worst announcer ever

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  • Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    Another factor that probably played a part in the dynamic of the relationship between Barber and Garagiola is that in 1947, when Barber was broadcasting the Dodgers, and Jackie Robinson was breaking the color barrier, Garagiola, then a catcher for St. Louis, was one of the main offenders as far as making Jackie's rookie season miserable. Barber came to like and respect Robinson during his time in Brooklyn, and that had to at least be in the back of his mind when he had to work with Garagiola in the booth.
    I doubt very much that played a role considering how Garagiola as a broadcaster had nothing but praise for Robinson over the years, and also I think there is a very serious danger in trying to impugn some kind of racial motive to Garagiola if Robinson happened to be spiked. I'm not denying that Robinson had to face a lot of adversity on that score, but there is a very serious danger in oversimplifying every time Robinson may have been spiked in a ballgame to some kind of sinister racial motive. And if Garagiola really did have some kind of anti-Robinson reputation, why would Scully have bothered to work with him?

    Barber was no shrinking violet when it came to blasting Garagiola in his book. If he honestly felt that was a reason to not feel comfortable with Garagiola, he would have said so.

    And I really have to take issue with the notion that when Sterling makes a call I find entertaining it's him "sounding like an idiot" or that those of us who enjoy his work like it because he "sounds like an idiot." I like Sterling because at his best he's been entertaining and knows how to connect with the core Yankee audience by reflecting the excitement and enthusiasm I as a fan feel when something exciting happens, and that's something his predecessor in the booth, Greenwald was totally incapable of doing (I again, always come back to the point that as a Yankee fan, I don't compare Sterling to Mel Allen, who was before my time, I compare him to the last guy who had the job before him).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by epaddon View Post
      I doubt very much that played a role considering how Garagiola as a broadcaster had nothing but praise for Robinson over the years, and also I think there is a very serious danger in trying to impugn some kind of racial motive to Garagiola if Robinson happened to be spiked. I'm not denying that Robinson had to face a lot of adversity on that score, but there is a very serious danger in oversimplifying every time Robinson may have been spiked in a ballgame to some kind of sinister racial motive. And if Garagiola really did have some kind of anti-Robinson reputation, why would Scully have bothered to work with him?

      Barber was no shrinking violet when it came to blasting Garagiola in his book. If he honestly felt that was a reason to not feel comfortable with Garagiola, he would have said so.
      "As in the earlier series, the first game was marred by a spiking incident. In the second inning, Cardinal catcher Joe Garagiola caught Robinson on the heel. 'I don't think Garagiola did it intentionally', said Robinson after the game, 'but this makes three times in two games with the Cardinals that it's happened. He cut my shoe all to pieces'. When Robinson came to the plate in the third inning, he made a remark to Garagiola, who responded with a racial slur. For the first time during the long season, Robinson lost his temper. He and Garagiola "engaged in an angry teeth-to-teeth exchange", which brought coach Sukeforth out of the dugout to restrain Robinson, and required intervention by umpire Beans Reardon."

      My source for that is "Baseball's Great Experiment" by Jules Tygiel, page 204, not Red Barber. You can spin it any way you want to, there was no love lost between Robinson and Garagiola, who was an active participant in the Cardinals' campaign of harassement of Robinson in 1947.
      Shalom, y'all!
      What's the rumpus?

      Comment


      • The danger is in presuming the motive was the same as that of a Ben Chapman or whether it was run-of-the mill "bench jockeying" of the kind that had been part of the game for quite some time before Robinson was ever around. That's where it can be a very dicey game IMO, and my point was that if Barber wasn't going to mention that in his book when he already wasn't holding back from what he felt about Garagiola (and Garagiola to his credit at least did not use his books as the occasion for ripping those he had issues with in the past), then I think that's another argument against the idea that it was a factor in his relationship with Garagiola.

        Comment


        • I'm sorry, but if Robinson was spiked three times in two games with the Cardinals, that goes beyond "run-of-the-mill bench jockeying".

          As I'm sure you're aware, the Cardinals threatened to strike at the beginning of the season if Robinson was allowed to play. In light of that, I don't believe the spikings were accidental or coincidental.
          Shalom, y'all!
          What's the rumpus?

          Comment


          • We're starting to get afield from the topic of broadcasters. The issue was whether this had anything to do with Barber's relationship with Garagiola, and the evidence indicates it does not because if it were, Barber would have said something about it in a book where he was willing to rip Garagiola for everything under the sun.

            I think we should get back to the issue of broadcasters before we get further afield.

            Comment


            • I don't know how you can presume to know what Barber would or wouldn't have said, but his relationship with Garagiola is relevant to the thread in my opinion.

              But I like Red Barber and you don't, and you like Joe Garagiola and I don't, and neither of us is likely to change the other's mind, so I'll agree to end this somewhat tangential argument.
              Shalom, y'all!
              What's the rumpus?

              Comment


              • It's not that I dislike Barber, BTW. I just think that too often there's a tendency among sports broadcast historians to put a halo around him at the expense of acknowledging his flaws as a man and in the business that *everyone* is prone to have, and the fact that his way was not always the best way in terms of how to call a game.

                And on that note, we can indeed move on.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post

                  My source for that is "Baseball's Great Experiment" by Jules Tygiel, page 204, not Red Barber. You can spin it any way you want to, there was no love lost between Robinson and Garagiola, who was an active participant in the Cardinals' campaign of harassement of Robinson in 1947.
                  Eig's Opening Day puts a different spin on this incident. Eig's version was that Robinson was baiting Garagiola while he was in the batters box. The book has a photo of the confrontation and Garagiola is the only one who looks upset. Garagiola later commented that the incident basically boiled down to two very competitive players trying to jockey the other.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post

                    As I'm sure you're aware, the Cardinals threatened to strike at the beginning of the season if Robinson was allowed to play. In light of that, I don't believe the spikings were accidental or coincidental.
                    Besides a fabricated statement attributed to Ford Frick there's no real evidence that there was any plot by the Cardinals to strike.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                      Eig's Opening Day puts a different spin on this incident. Eig's version was that Robinson was baiting Garagiola while he was in the batters box. The book has a photo of the confrontation and Garagiola is the only one who looks upset. Garagiola later commented that the incident basically boiled down to two very competitive players trying to jockey the other.
                      So the three spikings of Robinson in two games with the Cardinals don't amount to a racial incident? There was no intent on the part of the Cardinals to injure Robinson? Sorry, I don't buy it.
                      Last edited by ol' aches and pains; 01-05-2010, 04:19 PM. Reason: fixed a typo, if you must know.
                      Shalom, y'all!
                      What's the rumpus?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                        So the three spikngs of Robinson in two games with the Cardinals don't amount to a racial incident? There was no intent on the part of the Cardinals to injure Robinson? Sorry, I don't buy it.
                        On Slaughter's part maybe, but it doesn't sound like Robinson believed there was any intent on Garagiola's part. The Cardinals blamed the spikings on Robinson's unfamiliarity with playing first base.

                        Comment


                        • Seems like there might be another thread warranted here... Just an observation.
                          WAMCO!

                          Comment


                          • Sorry, you're quite right, and let the record show I tried to disengage in post#156, but was dragged kicking and screaming back into the fray. I'll behave myself now...
                            Shalom, y'all!
                            What's the rumpus?

                            Comment


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                              • Greg Pappa. Oakland A's, and sometimes forced upon us Giants fans too. He also does Oakland Raiders games.
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