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  • Post of the year? Could be.

    Originally posted by wes_kahn View Post
    But the reason I won't go to games or watch or listen has nothing to do with the labor negotiations. If you have read other posts of mine, there is one major reason why baseball has already lost me. The games suck compared to the games of my youth. How many batters today either:

    A. Walk back to the dugout after striking out.
    B. Walk to first base after drawing a base on balls or being hit by a pitch
    C. Jog around the bases after hitting the ball over the fence.

    BORING. I am not paying all that money to see all that walking and jogging.

    What happened to the action? Am I the oldest poster on this forum? Is there anybody else here that remembers when baseball had more running in it than football and basketball? I can remember the Go Go Sox of the 1950's. I can remember the Dodgers manufacturing runs by multiple strategies. I can remember the Pirates in their Lumber Yard days where at one point one year, their entire starting lineup minus pitchers were hitting over .290, and they had one real power hitter who actually was not hitting a lot of home runs that year.

    Players like Matty Alou, Pete Rose, Richie Ashburn, Nellie Fox, Pete Runnels, Curt Flood, Jackie Robinson, Jim Gilliam, and Willie Davis were real multi-talented athletes. They were the Justin Fields' and Patrick Mahomes' of the 1950s. Willie Mays was so rare that there was just one of him. To imagine him in his prime take Mike Trout. Give him Billy Hamilton's speed, and a defensive range several feet better than Trout with an arm almost the equal of Yasiel Puig, and then give him the desire of a Pete Rose. Oh, and put him in a home ballpark where it was 480 feet to dead centerfield and 455 feet to the left field power alley and 449 to the right foot power alley.

    You asked about passing Fenway Park and not wanting to go inside. Even though I was friends with both Bob Montgomery and Bobby Tillman, and even though I once got to fly fish in the same stream as the greatest hitter that ever lived, who just so happened to be the greatest fly fisherman that ever lived if not also the greatest fighter pilot that ever lived, I would not accept a free ticket to a Red Sox game to sit behind home plate or in the pressbox or even in the dugout today.

    It's no different to me than spending 100 nights a year eating in the same Cantonese-Hunan eatery flirting with the hot former Sheer Energy panty hose model who came from Taipei (I was 20 years old then), but refusing to step foot in the current version of that restaurant that wouldn't know authentic Hunan when they saw it, because all the cooks are Mexican, and the restaurant is run by two escapees from Brooklyn, who grew up eating grandmother's knishes and onion rolls and don't know from zhēnzhū ròuwán.

    If you are additionally a college football fan, and you are having the opportunity to watch college football at its historical zenith, if all of the FBS teams went back to running the ball 90% of the time and only throwing 10-yard play-action passes the other 10% of the time, would you be okay with that? Once you have seen a Mike Leach team play, having to resort to watching three blast plays between the tackles from a wing-I formation versus a split 60 defense totally selling out to the run isn't going to interest you.

    I even won't purchase new tabletop baseball sets, because there is no fun in it. I will play Dead Ball era games and have a best of the Dead Ball era for every one of the 16 franchises, and it is much more entertaining than anything at all to do with 21st century baseball. Do you pinch hit for Christy Mathewson or Grover Alexander in a 1-1 game in the 7th inning?

    Have you ever seen a sharp line drive hit into the gap at a ballpark that is deeper than 1 1/2 football fields, and the batter has speed? You expect a triple, but there is a chance at an inside the park homer, and there is going to be a play at the plate.

    When is the last time you saw two starting pitchers like Bob Gibson and Sandy Koufax or Dean Chance and Mel Stottlemyre hook up in double complete games with a 3-2 final score where there were 7 important plays on the bases that could have tipped the game in the other direction. That is what made baseball the top sport. In the older days, all baseball teams played like Mike Leach football teams today. It was fast break, up-tempo baseball, and today's game is the four corners stall or the buck dive out of the single wing.

    I hate the labor negotiations and wish there were permanent percentage limits that an independent arbitration expert defined. I would love for a salary cap to be put in place and for all the 30 teams to share equally in a national media TV contract. But, what makes me stay away from the game is the lack of any value in it. There is nothing in a 9-7 game with 11 total pitchers, 5 home runs, 25 strikeouts, 11 walks, and a time of play of 3 hours and 48 minutes. Give me a 1 hour and 55 minute 2-1 game with no pitching changes, and the final out made at home plate by a brilliant throw by the right fielder.


    • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
      Post of the year? Could be.
      In what way? Is it the anti-baseball sentiments, the fact that it was originally posted in a thread that has nothing to do with it, or its general sanctimoniousness?
      Put it in the books.


      • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

        In what way? Is it the anti-baseball sentiments, the fact that it was originally posted in a thread that has nothing to do with it, or its general sanctimoniousness?
        Seconded. What a trash post.
        "The first draft of anything is crap." - Ernest Hemingway

        There's no such thing as an ultimate stat.


        • Originally posted by abolishthedh View Post

          You would have to count me in on that one. However, we must clarify what we mean by Originalist. Yes, this is a buzzkill point, but it needs to be said.

          IMHO, this would have nothing to do with statistical analyses since the Founders of the Hall did not have such tools or references at their disposal. In the day and age of print media, all they had were Spring training guides published by Reach and the daily newspapers. Radio was still gaining its legs via early broadcasters, and therefore the storytelling over the radio would develop slowly from 1936. Lore built gradually.

          Back in that day and age, lore > statistics. It would remain this way for decades, possibly as late as the late 1970s when sports encyclopedias came out and when Bill James started to publish.

          The great majority of the "mistakes" discussed thus far, unfortunately, are in the Hall apparently because of the lore and not because of the stats. Lloyd Waner may not have the profile to stir your imagination, but he apparently had enough to stir the imagination of voters back in the day.

          To be perfectly fair, I would have to take the stance which my grandfathers would take. They, believe it or not, would count every relief pitcher as a mistake, let alone the likely inevitable selection of David Ortiz. The generation of my grandparents, who witnessed the Original Class play, would never support players who were only 1/2 of a real player. Consider for example, Mariano Rivera. Yes, I would vote him into the Hall because modern standards dictate such and I would have other relievers I would like to see in, so I could not keep a Yankee out. However, they would examine Rivera's career, find that he was a failed starter, and he would be roadkill right there. Never mind how great David Ortiz was at DH, even if he wore a cape at the plate and in the dugout, Ortiz would never make it because he would be labeled as a Designated Sitter. Such players cannot be HoFers in the view of the ancients (Originalists') mindsets, not when their gloves clank resoundingly throughout the stadium. If a team is hiding a pitcher in the bullpen until later in the game, or if a team is hiding a glove in the dugout, he would never make the Hall in the Originalists' view.

          These players would be "mistakes".

          Just taking the the counter-stance that they would take, since they are not here to make it themselves.

          Yes, I am a small Hall of Fame guy. This is a small Hall stance going forward, however. There is no weed-pulling necessary today in the Hall. We are probably lucky that the Hall is named for Fame, and not called Hall of Lore. Let's remember that the Hall was created in the name of marketing baseball during the Depression. It was never intended to be the Hall of Accomplishment.
          Trenchant, scholarly work from Toledo Inquisition!!


          • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post

            Trenchant, scholarly work from Toledo Inquisition!!
            Actually it is kudos for Abolishthedh who did this work.
            The Padres should bring back Bruce Bochy as manager.
            Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

            Go here for a link to all player links!

            Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info


            • Originally posted by Cougar View Post
              I may have slept with more people than are in Willshad's HOF. And I'm not Wilt Chamberlain or Warren Beatty, to be sure. I'm not even Red Klotz or Dustin Hoffman.
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


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