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Why do starting pitchers who suck find jobs year after year?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ian2813 View Post
    And then a lot of the guys we consider good starting pitchers now would become the new Suppans.
    Correct - the baseline keeps changing.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015

    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History


    • #17
      These pitchers are often very affordable to even the most cost-conscious teams. Aside from innings, they can also lend their experience to the younger pitchers on a given staff.

      I think that as long as a pitcher's demands aren't high (and they shouldn't be when mentioning guys like Trachsel), he can have a long career simply because he's still cost-effective. Same as some of these 10+ year players who simply play a utility role in the field.
      "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers


      • #18
        There's always someone who has to be below 100 OPS+, otherwise the metric wouldn't make sense. A lot of poor pitchers aren't necessarily worse than contemporaries in terms of skill. They can throw just as hard with as many pitch types as the next guy. However, they simply just don't do as well as others. Could be their catcher, obliging to coaching adjustments, or their mentality. Whether you have 16 or 30 teams, this will never change.
        "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article


        • #19
          Why? Because you can never have too much pitching.
          "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
          "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."


          • #20
            I'd have to think most owners would love to get a value of something like wins per dollar spent.

            I'm not sure of what expectations are when a certain starter goes over the span of the season, but I'm sure it's taken into consideration when he is signed as a FA or given an extended contract.

            If there are three starting pitchers on the open market, what would the expectated wins be for each start assuming each will go 34 starts for the year

            Player A's cost is $20M per season and he's a lifetime 3.00 ERA
            Player B's cost is $12M per season and he's a lifetime 3.50 ERA
            Player C's cost is $8M per season and he's a lifetime 4.00 ERA

            Without digging through everything, I'd have to expect (as a team) that Pitcher A would give my team a chance to win 75% of his games (not saying he'll get the decision - simply that I should win), with Pitcher B being about 60% and Pitcher B being in the 45% range.

            If I'm a budgeted team (small market) I can still possibly afford up to 4 of the Pitcher C types - maybe 3 of the Pitcher B types and 1 or two of Pitcher A type.

            Now I can have an expectation level of 45% wins (61 wins expected from 1-4 in staff) with 4 starters for the first team with a wild card in the 5-spot. I've got 60% win chance with 3 starters for the second team (61 wins), but now I have an extra wild card. With the final team, I can expect 75% wins from my gunners (52 wins), but what do I have after that?


            Team A spent $32M with 61 win expectancy and one open slot
            Team B spent $36M with 61 win expectancy and two open slots
            Team C spent $40M with 52 win expectancy and three open slots

            It comes down to those open slots. Some teams have more ready than others. Other teams (like the Phillies this year) had nobody near ready heading into 2012 and felt the need to go ultra-heavy with proven commodities. And how's that worked out so far?

            These pitchers (the Trachsel's, Morgan's etc) are also used to take the place of an unknown as well. Entering a season, you want - as an owner - your fanbase to feel as comfortable as possible. It helps sell season tickets much more than question marks up and down the rotation. Casual fans will feel much more comfortable in general seeing a familiar name as opposed to a questionable prospect to start the season.

            I think I babbled on long enough on this to maybe confuse my initial point, and I apologize for that. But in all, I think there are many teams who can have a multitude of issues that lead to marginal pitchers maintaining long careers.
            "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers


            • #21
              Originally posted by TonyK View Post
              Why? Because you can never have too much pitching.
              As much as some people may take that lightheartedly, it seems to always stand true.
              "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                We should draft a plan and submit it to MLB. I suggest getting rid of the entire AL and the NL Central. That leaves us only two teams to get rid of. I'm thinking Colorado and Arizona.
                on the other hand that might drain the talent pool a little since quite a few good HS athletes might switch to other sports if the chance to make the majors is almost zero.

                the reason why there are so many mediocre pitchers is that you have to fill a lot of innings. a season is about 1450 IP. for 30 teams this is over 43000 IP. that is a lot. also consider that those pitchers are only bad in getting MLB batters out (and still they make a lot more outs than hits). those pitchers still throw 90 and have 3 pitches. those are very good pitchers just not elite.
                I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.


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