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What If? (Barry Bonds)

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  • #1

    What If? (Barry Bonds)

    Most fans I know personally don't like Bonds for one reason or another. Many never have because of his aloofness, rudeness, cockiness or what have you. Pretty much all of them dislike him because he owns two of the most recognized records in profession sports.

    What if (and I saw this mentiioned on another site but can't remember where)...

    20 of his HRs in 2001 were doubles? As it ends up, he wouldn't hold the single season record for HRs (he'd have 53) nor the career mark (he'd have 742 - 13 shy of Aaron's record).

    I wonder how many people would accept him a bit more had he not broken both records. I myself don't count because I actually like Bonds and found him caught up in a circumstance of egomania that tarnished (to say the least) of what would otherwise have been an easy HOF career.

    But I asked a few of my friends last night and for the most part they changed from "hating the player" to simply "ehhhh still wouldn't like him much". I know baseball fans are tied to these records and that's part of the romance of the game. But if you really dislike Bonds (I don't like using the word hate because it sounds too personal), would you feel less animosity?
    19
    Never did like him and still wouldn't
    36.84%
    7
    Even though he was a pompous ass, he did what many players were doing at the time
    26.32%
    5
    I wouldn't dislike him as much only because the hallowed records wouldn't be tarnished
    15.79%
    3
    I'd like him more
    0.00%
    0
    Always liked and respected him
    21.05%
    4
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I dislike the fact that he and others [Sosa, McGwire, etc.] used performance enhancing drugs. No I wouldn't feel any less animosity if he hit less HR. I'd respect him more if he just came out and said yea I did PED's and I am or am not sorry for it and this is why.

    I appreciate the fact that he didn't try to "market" himself by putting up a facade like Sosa with his sprinting to RF, the "Sammy hop" his little kiss, kiss, chest bump thank you God act. McGwire with his still friends with my ex-wife, Big Mac Mcdonalds, all-american nice guy charade. Then he and Sosa's quasi-homosexual encounters on the middle of the diamond when the record was broke. Pre-planned of course to market their cheap, unfairly accomplished, ill gotten gains to maximize profits off of [among others] impressionable young ten year olds such as myself.

    I think he should make the HoF unlike Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro because of his pre-PED resume.

    I also think MLB is lucky it still has fans after that crap it pulled.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
      I
      I also think MLB is lucky it still has fans after that crap it pulled.
      Really? The fans (and I include myself) were part of it.
      "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
        Really? The fans (and I include myself) were part of it.
        So was I. Not sure what ya mean?
        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

        Comment

        • #5
          I gotta admit it was pretty sickening watching Sosa and McGwire that year. So in a strange way I kinda respect Bonds for showing them that if they are going to cheat then i'm going to show you hows its done and he really blew them away when he used. Although I deff would have respected Bonds alot more had he not used.

          I still look at Maris and Aaron as the homerun leaders
          "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

          "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
            Really? The fans (and I include myself) were part of it.
            I should have said casual fans. Being that the sport was mired by dishonesty in the wake of Sosa, McGwire then Bonds and especially after the McGwire, Palmeiro court debacle. It isn't like after 1919 because there are a lot more athletic options today, both to play and to watch.
            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
              I gotta admit it was pretty sickening watching Sosa and McGwire that year. So in a strange way I kinda respect Bonds for showing them that if they are going to cheat then i'm going to show you hows its done and he really blew them away when he used. Although I deff would have respected Bonds alot more had he not used.

              I still look at Maris and Aaron as the homerun leaders

              What I find so facinating about Bonds is, that he did absolutly every thing he could to be the best player ever. I dont think he was the first to get on the juice, lots of other people were doing it, well he was going to get on the juice too. Sure, the opinion might be different about him if he didnt break both home run records, but probably not by much. Based on what ive seen of Barry Bonds, I dont think he cares a whole lot about what people think. He did what he had to do, and I doubt he regrets any of it.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Zoltan View Post
                What I find so facinating about Bonds is, that he did absolutly every thing he could to be the best player ever. I dont think he was the first to get on the juice, lots of other people were doing it, well he was going to get on the juice too. Sure, the opinion might be different about him if he didnt break both home run records, but probably not by much. Based on what ive seen of Barry Bonds, I dont think he cares a whole lot about what people think. He did what he had to do, and I doubt he regrets any of it.
                He didn't "have to" do anything. He didn't have to worry about losing his place in the lineup, or his job in MLB. He was a shoo-in first ballot hall-of-famer. That apparently wasn't enough for him.
                They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Lots of people were doing it...

                  so he had to do it
                  did what he had to do
                  was allowed/justified/etc in doing it
                  and so on...

                  Is astonishingly shortsided and beyond ridiculous. But to those that believe the above or are at peace with it, The players that chose NOT to cheat, was there something wrong with them that forced them into that decision? A lack of something?
                  Last edited by StanTheMan; 12-09-2012, 12:26 PM.
                  "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Zoltan View Post
                    What I find so facinating about Bonds is, that he did absolutly every thing he could to be the best player ever. I dont think he was the first to get on the juice, lots of other people were doing it, well he was going to get on the juice too. Sure, the opinion might be different about him if he didnt break both home run records, but probably not by much. Based on what ive seen of Barry Bonds, I dont think he cares a whole lot about what people think. He did what he had to do, and I doubt he regrets any of it.
                    I can't prove it, but I think he does mind the fact that some question some of his numbers because he used.

                    He has an ego like most superstars. He want so accepted as good or great as any other player and not have some of his numbers in question.
                    There was more than a few times some years back when he goit a bit hot under the collar when some mentioned using PED's.
                    I think it's just an act that........................ I really don't care attitude.
                    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 01-15-2013, 03:09 AM.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I know most fans disagree but I consider Barry Bonds the true HR King both for a single season and a career. I couldn't care less if he used steroids. It's what he had to do in order to compete in an environment where to say steroids were rampant would be a tremendous understatement.
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                        I know most fans disagree but I consider Barry Bonds the true HR King both for a single season and a career. I couldn't care less if he used steroids. It's what he had to do in order to compete in an environment where to say steroids were rampant would be a tremendous understatement.
                        Yeah I agree. Thats the point I was trying to get across.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                          I know most fans disagree but I consider Barry Bonds the true HR King both for a single season and a career. I couldn't care less if he used steroids. It's what he had to do in order to compete in an environment where to say steroids were rampant would be a tremendous understatement.
                          The consensus around here seems to be that Bonds was a sure-fire, can't miss first ballot Hall-of-Famer before he ever used PED's, so I really don't follow this logic that "he did what he had to do". What if he hadn't? He would have sailed into the Hall Of Fame with no controversy.
                          They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                            I know most fans disagree but I consider Barry Bonds the true HR King both for a single season and a career. I couldn't care less if he used steroids. It's what he had to do in order to compete in an environment where to say steroids were rampant would be a tremendous understatement.
                            Oh really, what is this, the old "ghetto defense' we see in criminal trials....................hey look at the neighborhood I'm living in.........my surroundings....I'm more like a victim, cut me some slack.
                            Come on, we keep hearing about others using.

                            Your missing the point, what about those not using having to compete with users.

                            Using your logic, everyone should be using, how come not all use, how is it fair to them.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              ^
                              everyone oughtta be using something. and nearly all do.
                              and the differences between lots of legal substances and lots of illegal ones are actually not all that great.
                              one of the key differences, though, are the harmful effects from prolonged use without guidance from a physician.
                              "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                              Comment

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