The "All Pretty-Good Career" Team

[GiambiJuice]

Let's see who can make the best starting nine (8 position players and a DH) using the following criteria:

Retired players only
Career BA below .300
Fewer than 200 career HR
Fewer than 1,000 career RBI
Fewer than 1,000 career runs scored


Here's my team:

C Thurman Munson
1B Frank Chance
2B Bill Mazeroski
SS Jim Fregosi
3B Al Rosen
LF Charlie Keller
CF Andy Van Slyke
RF Carl Furillo
DH Gavvy Cravath

[Herr28]

C- Chris Hoiles
1B- Leon Durham
2B- Tom Herr
SS- Garry Templeton
3B- Whitey Kurowski
LF- Mike Easler
CF- Lenny Dykstra
RF- Terry Puhl
DH- Ken Phelps

This would be a "pretty good team!"

[Jackaroo Dave]

Let's see who's left:

C Walker Cooper

1 Ed Konetchy
2 Johnny Evers
3 Heinie Groh
S Lou Boudreau

L Roy White
C Curt Flood
R Tommy Henrich

D Jackie Jensen

(Jeff Heath might have been a better hitter than Jensen, but I wouldn't have him on my team, even an imaginary one.)

[Herr28]

Wow, good call on Boudreau! I thought he would've score 1000 runs, but that's a good catch for SS! What's the story on Heath? Was he a jerk or something? Jensen was one of my Grandfather's favorites, so I would be more inclined to take him too over Heath. Good team!

[Jackaroo Dave]

Wow, good call on Boudreau! I thought he would've score 1000 runs, but that's a good catch for SS! What's the story on Heath? Was he a jerk or something? Jensen was one of my Grandfather's favorites, so I would be more inclined to take him too over Heath. Good team!

Thank you.

The capper on Heath for me was his breaking his discarded bat after Willard Brown used it, but he was really seen as a jerk by a lot of people. His wikipedia bio is just a litany of his alienating behavior throughout his career.

He was seen as both as obnoxiously aggressive and indifferently lazy, which is an odd combination. [Perhaps a sign of bipolarity?] I'm sure he had some good points, and he was an amazing hitter, with both speed and power. If he'd had, say, Musial's personality, instead of a self-destructive degree of universal animosity, he'd've been something.

Edit: There's also a very good SABR bio here: ed. Link deleted as containing inappropriate content, as it was not SABR connected but a picture of a naked female.

[VIBaseball]

Glenn Davis and J.T. Snow are also possibilities at 1B.
Hal McRae can go in the outfield (or DH, if it's after his rotator-cuff tear).
Jason Varitek is a good catcher.

PS on Jeff Heath: it's my belief that quirkiness/jerkiness/superstition was his motive with Willard Brown...not racism, as is often stated.

[philliesfiend55]

Dick Bartell, Tony Taylor and Mark Grudzielanek at 2B.
Jason Kendall, Smokey Burgess and Tony Pena at C.
Pinky May, and Aurelio Rodriguez at 3B
Gene Woodling, Irv Noren, and Gee Walker* at OF
Johnny Logan and Granny Hamner at SS
Jim Gentile at 1B

* Walker barely qualifies for this "Almost Great Team" with just under the 2,000 hit milestone - 1991 H, just under the 1000 runs and 1,000 RBI milestones - 954 R and 997 RBI and just under a .300 batting average - 294.

[Jackaroo Dave]

PS on Jeff Heath: it's my belief that quirkiness/jerkiness/superstition was his motive with Willard Brown...not racism, as is often stated.

There is no doubt he was an equal-opportunity jackhole, and it's easy to imagine him doing that to anyone. His world is so self-bounded I wonder if even the concept of racism could penetrate it.

After all, racism implies a degree of social solidarity, "Us v Them," that I don't think Heath ever attained. There was no "Us" for him.

And it's preposterous to expect him to avoid harassing Brown in order to avoid the perception of racism. This assumes both that other people exist autonomously and that their understanding of the world matters, assumptions Heath seems free from.

The more I learn about him, the more I agree with your point.

I still wouldn't have him on my imaginary team, though.

[GiambiJuice]

At this point I might put Hideki Matsui at DH.

[Brettxe]

c- Wally Schang
1b- Ferris Fain
2b- Tony Lazzeri
ss- Eddie Joost
3b- Bob Watson
rf- Joe Cunningham
cf- Pepper Martin
lf- Gene Woodling
DH- Max Bishop

this team would set the record for LOBs....

[philliesfiend55]

Some other options: BJ Surhoff, Steve Finley, Chuck Finley, Dixie Walker, Curt Simmons, Bob Friend, Doyle Alexander, Lew Burdette, Johnny Callison, Camilo Pascual, Livan Hernandez, Claude Osteen, Harland Clift, Pinky Higgins, Bucky Walters, Milt Pappas, Felipe Alou, Matty Alou, Ozzie Guillen, Dave Bancroft, Bill Virdon, Jim Gentile, Johnny Romano, "Moose"Skowron, Dick Radatz, John Wyatt, Larry French, Roy Face, Brooks Lawrence, Hersh Freeman, Luke Easter, Dale Mitchell, Sherm Lollar, Vic Power, Mel Parnell, Harry Dorish, and the just-retired Lance Berkman.

[GiambiJuice]

Some other options: BJ Surhoff, Steve Finley, Chuck Finley, Dixie Walker, Curt Simmons, Bob Friend, Doyle Alexander, Lew Burdette, Johnny Callison, Camilo Pascual, Livan Hernandez, Claude Osteen, Harland Clift, Pinky Higgins, Bucky Walters, Milt Pappas, Felipe Alou, Matty Alou, Ozzie Guillen, Dave Bancroft, Bill Virdon, Jim Gentile, Johnny Romano, "Moose"Skowron, Dick Radatz, John Wyatt, Larry French, Roy Face, Brooks Lawrence, Hersh Freeman, Luke Easter, Dale Mitchell, Sherm Lollar, Vic Power, Mel Parnell, Harry Dorish, and the just-retired Lance Berkman.

Livan Hernandez? The pitcher?

[1905 Giants]

Are they allowed to have played in the 19th Century?

[pheasant]

I went with players not yet selected in this thread:

C Brian Harper
1b Doug Mientkiewicz
2b Bucky Harris
3b Corey Koskie
SS Cristian Guzman
RF Tony Conigliaro
CF Larry Hisle
LF Marty Cordova
DH Roy Smalley

[Herr28]

I went with players not yet selected in this thread:

C Brian Harper
1b Doug Mientkiewicz
2b Bucky Harris
3b Corey Koskie
SS Cristian Guzman
RF Tony Conigliaro
CF Larry Hisle
LF Marty Cordova
DH Roy Smalley

There is something about this list, something that unites all these names, but I just can't think of what it is. Hmmmmmm...