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Who are the very best 5-tool players of 2005?

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  • Who are the very best 5-tool players of 2005?

    The 5 tools are:

    1. Hit for power
    2. Hit for average
    3. Can steal bases
    4. Can play defense well
    5. Has a strong arm

    They're the total players in baseball who aren't just DH types of sluggers with no glove, or slick-fielding, no-hit types. They can do everything and do it all. If they've got good overall baserunning skills, in addition to the thefts, that's definitely a bonus.

    So far, I'm thinking Vladimir Guerrero and Alex Rodriguez. Any others?

    Thx.
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
    Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
    THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
    Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

  • #2
    Jeff Francoer
    "I know One Thing, That I Know Nothing" - - - Socrates

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    • #3
      Vlad Guerrero and Albert Pujos

      Alex? C'mon Mattingly!!!

      He is not the best baserunner (I bet 90% of his steals are those what do you call it defensive something or other), not as good defensively as he is touted and his normal BA is just above .300 and is going down

      He can hit for power at an above average rate of contact, and doesn't walk 120 plus times, which I like, but he K's 125 plus...which isn't as good as Pujos and his less then 70

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      • #4
        Okay then, he has 4 tools. (SHEESH)

        *Meets Mr Taterhead by the elevator and bonks him upside the noggin once* :gt
        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
        Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
        THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
        Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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        • #5
          You and your Yankee bias :P


          See, I didn't mention Abreu...who many tout as 5 tool

          I am sure Mr. Abreu has all 5 tools, he just doesn't care to use 3 of them

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Imapotato
            You and your Yankee bias :P


            See, I didn't mention Abreu...who many tout as 5 tool

            I am sure Mr. Abreu has all 5 tools, he just doesn't care to use 3 of them
            Speaking of the Phillies, though, what about Chase Utley? He seeme to have all 5 of these tools (though I can't watch him enough to speak on the strength of his arm, I guess).
            "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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            • #7
              I don't know about these guys' defense & arm, but what do you think of

              Brian Roberts
              Grady Sizemore
              Alfonso Soriano
              Jason Bay
              Derrek Lee
              David Wright
              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
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              • #8
                Also, how about Carl Crawford? Morgan Ensberg (not a lot of basestealing, but a little)?
                Last edited by SoxSon; 08-24-2005, 08:39 AM.
                "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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                • #9
                  Speaking of Derrek Lee:

                  Albert Pujols

                  Both 1Bman have excellent defense in the glove. I'm not sure about their arm, but other than the occasional 3-6-3 or throwing home on a squeeze, I'm not sure that a 1Bman needs a gun. Also not a position where one needs acrobatics to play, unlike SS, 2B, 3B.
                  Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                  Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                  THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                  Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Perseas
                    Jeff Francoer
                    Francoeur has only stolen one base this season.
                    "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Perseas
                      Jeff Francoer
                      I like him a lot- But can he steal?
                      WAR? Prove it!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SoxSon
                        Francoeur has only stolen one base this season.
                        Has he drawn a walk yet?
                        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                        • #13
                          Yeah, it was an IBB...

                          Alex? C'mon Mattingly!!!

                          He is not the best baserunner (I bet 90% of his steals are those what do you call it defensive something or other), not as good defensively as he is touted and his normal BA is just above .300 and is going down

                          He can hit for power at an above average rate of contact, and doesn't walk 120 plus times, which I like, but he K's 125 plus...which isn't as good as Pujos and his less then 70
                          You must be kidding. I had to read your post twice to make sure you weren't. A-rod is the ultimate 5 tool player. Which member of the 40-40 club didn't take steroids? Right now, he's 319/418/602 (is .319 ba above average enough for you??) And remember, his natural position is a SS, where he's great defensively. A good defensive 1b (Pujols) is meaningless; the difference between the best 1b and worst 1b in the league is maybe 4 runs a year (I laugh out loud when people say Pujols is great defensively, because he's playing FIRST BASE, which is just a joke) For SS, it's maybe 40 runs a year. And A-rod's arm is an absolute gun... Remember, he just moved to 3b, and he's been playing the position fantastic the past few months. And the K's don't matter. It really doesn't matter how you make the outs, it matters how many outs you make.

                          Keep this in mind. At the age of 30, A-rod has more hits than Rose did, mroe homers than Aaron did, and more stolen bases than Henderson did. Let's see Pujols try play any other defensive position besides 1B, or steal 40 bases in a year. When was the last time a shortstop or 3b could be considered the best offensive player in the game?? Honus Wagner, 100 years ago, maybe?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by darkplague17
                            Yeah, it was an IBB...



                            You must be kidding. I had to read your post twice to make sure you weren't. A-rod is the ultimate 5 tool player. Which member of the 40-40 club didn't take steroids? Right now, he's 319/418/602 (is .319 ba above average enough for you??) And remember, his natural position is a SS, where he's great defensively. A good defensive 1b (Pujols) is meaningless; the difference between the best 1b and worst 1b in the league is maybe 4 runs a year (I laugh out loud when people say Pujols is great defensively, because he's playing FIRST BASE, which is just a joke) For SS, it's maybe 40 runs a year. And A-rod's arm is an absolute gun... Remember, he just moved to 3b, and he's been playing the position fantastic the past few months. And the K's don't matter. It really doesn't matter how you make the outs, it matters how many outs you make.

                            Keep this in mind. At the age of 30, A-rod has more hits than Rose did, mroe homers than Aaron did, and more stolen bases than Henderson did. Let's see Pujols try play any other defensive position besides 1B, or steal 40 bases in a year. When was the last time a shortstop or 3b could be considered the best offensive player in the game?? Honus Wagner, 100 years ago, maybe?
                            I think you mean runs scored and not stolen bases, right? Through age 30 Rickey had 871 SB. As of today A-Rod a "little" less than 871 SBs. He has 217, or 654 less than Rickey.

                            Through age 30 Rickey had 1171 runs and A-Rod already has 1210 runs as of today. Wow. A-Rod can potentially break the all-time record is HRs, RBI, runs, total bases, and perhaps the doubles record.
                            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by darkplague17
                              When was the last time a shortstop or 3b could be considered the best offensive player in the game?? Honus Wagner, 100 years ago, maybe?
                              Caminiti in 1996
                              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                              Comment

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