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Who are the very best 5-tool players of 2005?

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    natsnsoxfan
    Registered User

  • natsnsoxfan
    replied
    Originally posted by joe_knowitall View Post
    ARod, Carl Crawford, Vlad, Beltran, Berkman
    Berkman? Are you kidding me? He has almost no speed and while he is a decent defender at 1st and in the OF he doesn't have much of an arm. I'd love to see you justify this.....

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  • utterchaos jr.
    Registered User

  • utterchaos jr.
    replied
    it get's carried away when people start saying Drew, or Berkman**
    Sizemore, A-rod, Wright, Beltran, and Vlad are the best 5-tool players
    Berkman and Drew have speed, but they don't even stel 10 a year
    Sizemore, Wright, A-Rod, Vlad go 22 a year and Beltran will go 25
    But, if you don't make it over 10 stolen bases in 162 games...speed is not a tool

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  • joe_knowitall
    Registered User

  • joe_knowitall
    replied
    ARod, Carl Crawford, Vlad, Beltran, Berkman

    Leave a comment:

  • utterchaos jr.
    Registered User

  • utterchaos jr.
    replied
    I know it was your point
    I was kind of slim on the Idea but I read some of yours and backed it up
    Base it some on skill because of some points like manager, line-up, team, league, age etc.

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  • Edgartohof
    Registered User

  • Edgartohof
    replied
    In any case, being a 5-tool player doesn't automatically make you better than someone else (though it certainly can help).

    There are other 3-tool and 4-toolers that are better than those with more "tools"

    If one excells in a certain area, despite lacking in others, they still can be better than those players who are more well rounded.

    Leave a comment:

  • natsnsoxfan
    Registered User

  • natsnsoxfan
    replied
    Originally posted by utterchaos jr. View Post
    Stats are the only thing you have for some players
    Sizemore hasn't been playing long enough for anybody to watch him and call him a "5 tool player"

    Yet, basing him on skill is good too because...
    sometimes, the NL has better pitchers than the AL or the AL has better ones
    Also, if you are on the Royals, Sizemore will bat first
    Compared to the yankees, where he could bat 5th or something that would give him less stats
    it also counts on the manager to send him or not
    That was kind of my point....

    Leave a comment:

  • utterchaos jr.
    Registered User

  • utterchaos jr.
    replied
    Originally posted by natsnsoxfan View Post
    I think Vernon lacks the speed to be considered 5-tool. His career high in steals is 17, last year, but previously to that it was only 9, which he had done in 2002 and 2004.

    Also, i kind of noticed that people are considering this statistic, myself included, but that kind of made me think, are we talking 5-tool based on ability with some stats to back it up but not 100%, or 5-tool based on almost purely statistical evidence?
    Stats are the only thing you have for some players
    Sizemore hasn't been playing long enough for anybody to watch him and call him a "5 tool player"

    Yet, basing him on skill is good too because...
    sometimes, the NL has better pitchers than the AL or the AL has better ones
    Also, if you are on the Royals, Sizemore will bat first
    Compared to the yankees, where he could bat 5th or something that would give him less stats
    it also counts on the manager to send him or not

    Leave a comment:

  • utterchaos jr.
    Registered User

  • utterchaos jr.
    replied
    Exactly...
    Wells has great speed, and if you think about it he is faster than Pujols, who everyone has been considering a '5 tool player'
    utterchaos jr.
    Registered User
    Last edited by utterchaos jr.; 05-22-2007, 07:01 PM.

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  • digglahhh
    Pedrophile/Food Metaphor

  • digglahhh
    replied
    Originally posted by Edgartohof View Post
    They may HAVE the 5 tools, but if they don't USE the tools, they are not 5 tool PLAYERS.

    Being a 5-tool PLAYER kind of assumes that they actually USE the tools they have.
    Vernon Wells uses his tool of speed to catch fly balls, but not necessarily to steal bases.

    Leave a comment:

  • Edgartohof
    Registered User

  • Edgartohof
    replied
    They may HAVE the 5 tools, but if they don't USE the tools, they are not 5 tool PLAYERS.

    Being a 5-tool PLAYER kind of assumes that they actually USE the tools they have.

    Leave a comment:

  • natsnsoxfan
    Registered User

  • natsnsoxfan
    replied
    Originally posted by digglahhh View Post
    You guys are pretty harsh. Power isn't a "tool" for D. Lee because he only averages in the upper 20s per season?

    You don't have to contest for league leadership in a category to have that ability as a "tool." You don't have to steal tons of bases, per se, to have speed.
    Kind of what i was getting at before. It really depends on what you define as a tool. Is it statistical output or the ability to perform the feat consistently, regardless of whether or not you choose to.

    Leave a comment:

  • digglahhh
    Pedrophile/Food Metaphor

  • digglahhh
    replied
    You guys are pretty harsh. Power isn't a "tool" for D. Lee because he only averages in the upper 20s per season?

    You don't have to contest for league leadership in a category to have that ability as a "tool." You don't have to steal tons of bases, per se, to have speed.

    Leave a comment:

  • natsnsoxfan
    Registered User

  • natsnsoxfan
    replied
    I think Vernon lacks the speed to be considered 5-tool. His career high in steals is 17, last year, but previously to that it was only 9, which he had done in 2002 and 2004.

    Also, i kind of noticed that people are considering this statistic, myself included, but that kind of made me think, are we talking 5-tool based on ability with some stats to back it up but not 100%, or 5-tool based on almost purely statistical evidence?

    Leave a comment:

  • Utter Chaos
    Registered User

  • Utter Chaos
    replied
    I forgot!

    WHAT ABOUT VERNON WELLS!
    I can't believe i forgot about him! :blush:

    Leave a comment:

  • Utter Chaos
    Registered User

  • Utter Chaos
    replied
    sorry...those DID NOT come out good...but, you could probably match up the SB pretty good

    Leave a comment:

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