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  • #61
    Osvaldo Fernandez: he was good but came to the big leagues a lil too late ( peter gammons said there were reports he mightve been 47).

    ariel prieto: Another guy who everyone waited to shine out of oakland before they got the 3 biggies. He shut out the red sox on 80 pitches once. amazing pitcher, right now watching conan.

    orlando hernandez: Ive been waiting 10 years for this guy to be the number 1 for the team. those world series rings probably can take him off the board though.

    Hideo Nomo: remember nomo-mania? I think I have a t-shirt in my closet still.

    Hideki Irabu: playing your first game in Yankee Stadium should be a contest in Fear factor.

    Manny Alexander: You should have something going for your in a career that started with replacing Cal Ripken at short and pushing him to 3rd base. At least he was good for those high pop-ups with runners on-base in the 7th. How I miss those good times.

    Steve Avery: Leo Mazzone can't save them all...
    redmask

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    • #62
      Originally posted by redmask
      Osvaldo Fernandez: he was good but came to the big leagues a lil too late ( peter gammons said there were reports he mightve been 47).

      ariel prieto: Another guy who everyone waited to shine out of oakland before they got the 3 biggies. He shut out the red sox on 80 pitches once. amazing pitcher, right now watching conan.

      orlando hernandez: Ive been waiting 10 years for this guy to be the number 1 for the team. those world series rings probably can take him off the board though.

      Hideo Nomo: remember nomo-mania? I think I have a t-shirt in my closet still.

      Hideki Irabu: playing your first game in Yankee Stadium should be a contest in Fear factor.

      Manny Alexander: You should have something going for your in a career that started with replacing Cal Ripken at short and pushing him to 3rd base. At least he was good for those high pop-ups with runners on-base in the 7th. How I miss those good times.

      Steve Avery: Leo Mazzone can't save them all...
      Don't forget that many Cuban and Japanese players have left their best years in their homeland.

      Osvaldo Fernandez played 11 season in Cuba. Ariel Prieto played 10 seasons and had some arm problems in Cuba too. Orlando Hernandez played 10 season as well. His MLB record is 70 and 49 with 4.11 ERA. He has played 7 season in the USA. That is a total of 17 seasons in addition the time he was banned from baseball in Cuba after his half brother Livan Hernandez defected. So is he 36 or 40? From now on, his record will deteriorate. He needs to become a relief pitcher if he wants to keep pitching at this age.
      None of them were the number one starter in the Cuban National team. El Duke was not even the number one in his Cuban National League team: The Industriales Lions, The New York Yankees of Cuba. Lazaro Valle was the number one starter. At one point, the Industriales had Valle, El Duke and Rene Arocha all in their primes.

      Lazaro Valle pitched against a Puerto Rican team that had Alomar, Baerga, Juan Gonzalez, Edgar Martinez, a young Javy Lopez and a few other I have forgotten. He threw 8 innings of 1 run ball and 3 hits all broken bats with several SO.

      Rene Arocha was the first Cuban defector. He played for the Cardinals after playing 11 seasons in Cuba. He also had several arm problems prior his defection. He began his career in the Cuban league at the age of 15. Of course, he did not pitch much at that time.

      El Duke does not have any more places to keep his trophies and rings from his times in Cuba and in the USA.

      Orlando "El Duke" Hernandez (Mr. October)

      3 World Series Rings with The New York Yankees
      1999 ALCS MVP with The New York Yankees
      1 World Series Ring with The Chicago White Sox
      Post Season Record 9 wins 3 loses 2.55 ERA (One of the best ever)


      Remember that until recently, Cuba did not use pitch counts. So at some points your body will suffer. Unlike other foreing players, Cuban and Japanese players are expected to contribute right away. What are the chances of having a 30 year plus guy going through an adjusment period in the minors? Adjustment period: Learning the culture, language, food while playing high competition.

      Another thing going against the Cuban players is the fact that the Cuban government retains their families for a long time. Other players can come with their families and go back to their countries once the season is over.
      Other foreing players come in their teens and have time to adjust.


      One last thing about Prieto. In 2005, he played for the Marlins AAA.

      The Official Site of Minor League Baseball web site includes features, news, rosters, statistics, schedules, teams, live game radio broadcasts, and video clips.


      Prieto is now playing winter ball in Mexico.
      Last edited by Cubano100%; 01-05-2006, 05:12 AM.

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      • #63
        Shane Spencer

        10 home runs in his first 33 at-bats as a pro

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        • #64
          I'll go with Greg Jefferies, didn't he get a Sports Illustrated cover and was going to be the next Pete Rose?

          Also, Ben McDonald was supposed to be the next Clemens but ended up being the next Al Nipper.

          And Teddy Higuero had a great first four years in the league and then nothing.

          There really are a ton of players like this. How about Glenn Davis? Didn't he get vertigo or something and then stopped hitting? What's up with that?

          Or how about Kevin Seitzer? He was supposed to be George Brett but ended up being Greg Jefferies.

          Cory Snyder, Greg Swindell, Bob Hamelin, Sam Horn, Greg Walker, Chris Sabo, Steve Avery, Denny McLain, Phil Plantier, Carlos Quintana, and Willie Mays Aikens is a particularly sad one.

          These are just some that come to mind. Some of these guys had good careers but just didn't live up to the hype.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Pine Tar
            And Teddy Higuero had a great first four years in the league and then nothing.

            There really are a ton of players like this. How about Glenn Davis? Didn't he get vertigo or something and then stopped hitting? What's up with that?
            You can add Juan Nieves to the list. Like Higuera, another Brewer pitcher with promise that just didn't pan out. He tossed a no-no in one of his first starts.

            Not sure about Davis, but Nick Esasky did get vertigo. Probably through the mind control of Pete Rose, who probably couldn't handle the fact Esasky was doing well after Rose could no longer hold him back.
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            • #66
              What about Toe Nash? Is he still in the minors? Is Jeffrey Allison still pitching?
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              • #67
                cubano, that was one of the best replies i've ever gotten. serious, i knew some
                of the situations you stated; its good to see others understand what foreign players have to go through. My whole point was more based on the money factor and what management + fans expected from these players going into the twilight of their careers.
                redmask

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by redmask
                  cubano, that was one of the best replies i've ever gotten. serious, i knew some
                  of the situations you stated; its good to see others understand what foreign players have to go through. My whole point was more based on the money factor and what management + fans expected from these players going into the twilight of their careers.

                  I think the problem is the lack of info on Cuban players. Teams also must do their homework before creating big expectations that are difficult to fulfill. Prieto was mediocre back home and used to throw really hard. At one point he was the hardest thrower back home but he injured himself and was not the same. As you can see, he had a 4.47 ERA for Los Toronjeros de la Isla de La Juventud (Grapefruit Croppers) his team in the Cuban National League. That team is located in the Isle of Youth, which is the smaller island below Cuba. His team has never won a championship, but this year the Grapefruit Croppers are in first place in group 1 in the West League. Hopefully, all of you do not mind the extra info I included.



                  These are his Cuban stats:

                  Ariel Prieto

                  Series W L ERA IP Opp. Ave K BB Win % Saves
                  10 67 66 4.47 1043.1 271 860 525 0.504 0


                  Ariel Prieto is now playing for 'Los Tigres(Tigers) de Aragua' in Venezuela. He was signed for the playoff run. Miguel Cabrera (Marlins) also plays for the Tigers.
                  Last edited by Cubano100%; 01-05-2006, 05:07 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Pine Tar
                    And Teddy Higuero had a great first four years in the league and then nothing.
                    What happened to Teddy Higuera anyway? Did he get injured or what? It's disappointing, just 'cause he's one of the very, very few pitchers the Brewers had with big time potential, and he essentially busted.
                    "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

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                    • #70
                      What did happen to Teddy.......

                      anyway, Here's a lengthy article about the Rise and Fall of David Clyde


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                      • #71
                        Todd Hollandsworth. Wasnt Hee Seop Choi supposed to be big too?
                        "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
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                        • #72
                          How about Albert Belle?
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                          • #73
                            Seattle Mariners pitcher Ryan Anderson... was the Mariner's top prospect for 3 years in a row back around 2000, listed as the #1 prospect in baseball a few years ago and has yet to throw a major league inning

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Astro
                              Seattle Mariners pitcher Ryan Anderson... was the Mariner's top prospect for 3 years in a row back around 2000, listed as the #1 prospect in baseball a few years ago and has yet to throw a major league inning
                              Dude, you don't even know. I went to the Team One showcase the year Anderson was going into his SR year of HS (had to be around 1996). The Team One was for the top 100 Jrs, heading into their SR years. Anyway, a buddy of mine was a scout for the Tigers at the time, and Anderson was HUGE! He was already 6'9", and blowing heat. I'm not kidding you, his mother had to be 6'4". His family was crazy big. When Seattle drafted him, he was dubbed "Little Unit", as he the M's had visions of pairing him and Randy Johnson in the same rotation at the time. At any rate, he believed his own hype, had a terrible attitude, and has never, to my knowledge, made the show. He was the best pitcher I ever saw at a Team One Showcase. BTW, Eric Chavez was the best hitter I ever saw there. They had the showcase at New Crosley Field here in Cinci. It's an exact replica of Crosley Field, and even had the final scoreboard settings from the final game there. At any rate, I saw Chavez go over the big scoreboard in left field... TWICE. He was only a HS JR! Kid was unreal.
                              I'm a Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech and a Hell of an Engineer!

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                              • #75
                                Mike Ivie,
                                "YA GOTTA BELIEVE!"- Tug McGraw

                                "You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out it was the other way around all the time"- Jim Bouton, the last line in Ball Four

                                "I don't care if the guy (Jackie Robinson) is yellow or black, or if he has stripes like a g**-damn zebra. I'm the manager of this team and I say he plays."- Leo Durocher

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