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  • #16
    Originally posted by baseball junkie
    Oh I think Captain Cold Nose is a W fan. And yes I know all about the embargo. I also know the treasury department is a cabinet office putting it directly under the auspices of the President, not congress.
    The facts. The President doesn't have anything to do with it.

    Captain Cold Nose is actually agreeing with you if you could open your ears for a minute and listen to what he is saying.
    Best posts ever:
    Originally posted by nymdan
    Too... much... math... head... hurts...
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago

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    • #17
      Originally posted by trosmok
      This is only the first salvo, gang. Rest assured the diplomatic spin machines will get to work and will arrive at a solution that will allow the best team invited, that has accepted, to participate. Fidel wanted assurances from San Juan and San Diego, where the Cuban National Team will play and win, that defections will not be tolerated. When he received those two weeks ago, he agreed to allow the CNT to participate, but not the MLB defectors from his island. The Treasury Department is a weak little urchin on foreign affairs matters; the State Department, the Secretary of State, and the Attorney General can all trump a permit denial with a few strokes of a pen. Dubya actually wants all invited to participate, and it wouldn't surprise me if he takes credit for, and makes political hay by reversing Treasury's initial insult. BTW, I've heard there is a village in Texas that is missing it's idiot.
      I thought Molly Ivins was still there.
      Unless it has something to do with the topic at hand, which is the WBC, please, everyone, keep any and all political barbs out of the discussion. What my, or anyone else's politics for that matter is off topic. This isn't mlb.com.
      I'm not directing this at you, specifically, trosmok. I'm just using your post as my proclamation starting point. You could have dartboards filled with Dubya's face on them and you'd still be at the top of my list of favorite posters. It just doesn't belong here.
      Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
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      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
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      • #18
        Originally posted by trosmok
        The Treasury Department is a weak little urchin on foreign affairs matters
        Except Cuba. They don't fool around when it comes to that little island.

        the State Department, the Secretary of State, and the Attorney General can all trump a permit denial with a few strokes of a pen.
        Not likely. Not when Treasury has valid justification behind it's decision. They can be wrong in their refusal, but something like this doesn't happen knee-jerk. They have something that is not known...

        Dubya actually wants all invited to participate, and it wouldn't surprise me if he takes credit for, and makes political hay by reversing Treasury's initial insult.
        That political hay vs. the fall-out he has to endure from the other side of the issue...I'd place good money on him not reversing Treasury.
        Best posts ever:
        Originally posted by nymdan
        Too... much... math... head... hurts...
        Originally posted by RuthMayBond
        I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago

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        • #19
          Welcome to Havana

          Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
          It just doesn't belong here.
          Agreed, and I've edited my previous post, but I still think there is a whole lot of time for this little hiccup to be rescinded. Fidel is getting mighty long in the tooth, and all those cigars have taken their toll on his health, so there is going to be a day in the very near future when relations to our closest island neighbors are going to return to nearly normal, again. The WBC is just one of many olive branches being extended to Cuba, and sports have a way of transcending other considerations. Perhaps many are too young to remember, or only know about it from Forrest Gump, but the U.S. v. China ping-pong games were a huge part of the thawing in the relations with that other Communist regime. BTW, two people I work very closely with visited Havana less than a year ago on a "humanitarian" mission with the American Red Cross, and told first hand of the dozens of businesses based in the U.S. that are working with the Cuban government and people in various enterprises. While strictly forbidden by Treasury rules, there are always loopholes exploited by folks, including ones that allows cooperation in capitalist endeavors including sports for "mutual health benefit" reasons.
          Last edited by trosmok; 12-15-2005, 07:45 AM.
          Baseball is a ballet without music. Drama without words ~Ernie Harwell

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          • #20
            Originally posted by trosmok
            Agreed, and I've edited my previous post, but I still think there is a whole lot of time for this little hiccup to be rescinded.
            2006 is an election year for Congress(the ones who enacted the law that the Treasury Department is enforcing FYI to those who don't know). Florida also has a governor's race next fall as well, so I am sure that factored into things quite a bit....think about that for a second.

            Fidel is getting mighty long in the tooth, and all those cigars have taken their toll on his health, so there is going to be a day in the very near future when relations to our closest island neighbors are going to return to nearly normal, again. The WBC is just one of many olive branches being extended to Cuba, and sports have a way of transcending other considerations.

            Perhaps many are too young to remember, or only know about it from Forrest Gump, but the U.S. v. China ping-pong games were a huge part of the thawing in the relations with that other Communist regime
            Difference then and now: that was in China, WBC is in the USA. If the tournament was being held in Japan or Korea or the Dominican Republic we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
            Best posts ever:
            Originally posted by nymdan
            Too... much... math... head... hurts...
            Originally posted by RuthMayBond
            I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago

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            • #21
              Any idea who'll replace Cuba if MLB doesn't get this all sorted out?


              I figure there are 2 canidates (I didn't include a Free Cuban team, since that would be a complicated matter):

              Colombia
              MLB Players: Edgar Renteria, Orlando Cabrera, Yamid Haad.


              Nicaragua
              MLB Players: Vicente Padilla

              Comment


              • #22
                cuba

                I saw an undefeated cuban team win the world cup over here in the netherlands this summer. they play at a high level. no world baseball classic or tourney would be legitimate without them. mlb should fight this one, or abandon the whole idea of the wbc. seems a shame when there is one thing we share a passion for in both countries (usa and cuba). why can't baseball invoke a special clause in this case? why is the government interfering? This is a chance to promote the game internationally while also easing tensions between cuba and the US. if cuba is not allowed to join, it is a missed opportunity for all of us and for the game.
                Last edited by christian gentleman; 12-16-2005, 02:08 AM.

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                • #23
                  Puerto Rico to help Cuba into Classic

                  Puerto Rico to help Cuba into Classic

                  NEW YORK (AP) -- U.S. bids to host future Olympic Games will be damaged by the Bush administration's decision to prevent Cuba from playing in next year's inaugural World Baseball Classic, a member of the IOC said Thursday.

                  The U.S. Treasury Department denied a request by Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association for a permit to allow Cuba to send a team.














                  "It's for baseball to decide, but if they don't make a stand on something like that, then they will have big problems down the road," said Dick Pound, an International Olympic Committee member from Canada.

                  If not reversed, he said "it would completely scupper any bid" by the United States for the Summer or Winter Games.

                  Baseball officials said they had asked lawyers at Morgan Lewis & Bockius to attempt to have the Bush administration reverse the decision by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control, which by law must issue permits for certain transactions with Fidel Castro's communist country.

                  "I think our policy regarding Cuba is pretty well known," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "We want people in Cuba to participate in freedom."

                  Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, a Florida Republican, said he had spoken with the Treasury Department urging that the permit be denied.

                  "There are plenty of free Cuban players and Cuban-Americans here in the majors and in the minors who would be proud to represent Cuba, and they should be able to and not a totalitarian regime that would share in any proceeds from this tournament," he said.

                  He rejected Pound's claim that the decision will hurt the U.S. in Olympic bidding.

                  "Hopefully by an Olympic very near in the future there will be a free Cuba, anyway," Diaz-Balart said. "I think that's one of the most absurd arguments I've heard in a long time."

                  U.S. Olympic Committee spokesman Darryl Seibel said any fallout in the IOC was hard to predict because the USOC hasn't decided when it will make its next bid. But he also added: "Certainly it's important for any country that's bidding for the Games to be able to represent with confidence that athletes and coaches from around the world will be able to come to their country."

                  In Havana, government officials didn't react to the decision, but several Cuban citizens were angry.

                  "Enough already!" said Antonio Mayeta, whose brother plays for Havana's Industriales baseball team. "It's unbelievable. This is about sports, not politics. In Cuba, baseball is our culture. Everyone was so anxious to see these games."

                  Said Victor Renglon, sitting on a park bench in central Havana: "Everyone from Fidel to little boys are born with a bat in their hands."

                  Puerto Rico Secretary of State Fernando Bonilla planned to meet Friday with the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Puerto Rico, and seek help in reversing the decision from Luis Fortuno, Puerto Rico's nonvoting representative in Congress, and from the director of the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration in Washington.

                  In 1999, the U.S. government allowed Cuba's national team to play an exhibition game against the Baltimore Orioles at Camden Yards, the second leg of a home-and-home series.

                  "Back then it was the Clinton administration not only allowing but organizing the opening to Castro and utilizing Peter Angelos and the Baltimore Orioles and Bud Selig. They were instigating it," Diaz-Balart said. "This administration is complying with law and policy."

                  Pound pointed out the U.S. government allowed Cuba to participate in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Twelve years earlier, Cuba was part of the boycott of the Los Angeles Games.

                  Just last summer, Cuba's national soccer team was allowed to come to the United States for the CONCACAF Gold Cup, the championship of North and Central America and the Caribbean.

                  "Sports should be separated from politics," U.S. Soccer Federation president Bob Contiguglia said. "That's been a FIFA and an IOC philosophy, and we concur with that philosophy. In soccer, we've played Cuba in sport on many occasions and it's never been a problem. We've had teams go to Cuba and they've come here. So it seems kind of shortsighted that the administration would do that."

                  Diaz-Balart compared the situation to the international sports ban on teams from apartheid South Africa that ran from the 1960s to the 1990s.

                  "I don't know why the double standard," he said. "It's all right to oppress the Cuban people, I guess, if there's a white dictator, but with people of mixed race suffering the consequences."

                  Treasury Secretary John Snow was not available for comment on the issue, spokeswoman Molly Millerwise said. Officials of the IOC didn't respond to requests for comment.

                  FIFA president Sepp Blatter was unconcerned.

                  "This would not happen in football," he said Friday in Tokyo. "Before giving the organization (rights) of the World Cup or any world competition, we have a government guarantee before we start, so we avoid this situation."
                  Last edited by Captain Cold Nose; 12-16-2005, 04:19 AM.

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                  • #24
                    While posting articles is fine, Andruw, please be careful to remove the advertising before you paste.
                    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                    Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                    • #25
                      "Can't we all just ge along."

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                      • #26
                        no a-rod

                        without a-rod, i think the wbc is just an exhibition and not serious. and if latin players start to protest the US decision not to let cuba play, ("let" what a horrible preconception), I think the thing should be cancelled. the game of baseball is a city game after all, not a national game. go yanks, go sox, go Oakland. let's focus on the best the game can be the way it has been for so long. bud selig should be more outspoken. where is our giamatti? where is our connie mack? where is kenesaw mountain landis? no visionary in the game at the moment is a disappointment and a major handicap.

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                        • #27
                          Its hard to keep politics out a discussion regarding an act that was 100% political and had nothing at all to do with baseball.

                          Petty, very petty! I wouldn't expect anything else...
                          THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                          In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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                          • #28
                            Eventhough the chances of Holland to reach te second round will increase, I still think this is a devaluation of the tournament. Cuba must participate.

                            If the US government really wants people to participate in freedom, I know a lot of other countries against whom she should take action. But this is only because Cuba is in Washington's back yard, just like in the Reagan days.

                            Sorry guys, but this is just not right IMO.
                            Last edited by Yankeebiscuitfan; 12-17-2005, 12:08 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Maybe this can help to turn back the stupid decision.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/sp...ll/17cuba.html

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by yankees rule
                                Maybe this can help to turn back the stupid decision.

                                http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/sp...ll/17cuba.html
                                Actually, it supports it. This is the key in the article:

                                "Ted Howard, the deputy secretary general of Concacaf, the soccer confederation of North and Central America and the Caribbean, said the Cubans had followed "normal channels" in applying for visas in their country and receiving them through the State Department.
                                "There's nothing earth-shattering about it," Howard said.

                                Steve Torres, a spokesman for Concacaf, added, "This is the same as granting visas for Cuban athletes to participate in the Olympics.""


                                Also of note is this:

                                Baseball officials are planning to change their application so Cuba receives no financial consideration.
                                They make the change to comply with federal laws, the decision is reversed.
                                Last edited by efin98; 12-18-2005, 05:45 AM.
                                Best posts ever:
                                Originally posted by nymdan
                                Too... much... math... head... hurts...
                                Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                                I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago

                                Comment

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