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I can't figure out Piazza (why he hasn't been signed yet)

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  • I can't figure out Piazza (why he hasn't been signed yet)

    Is there no interest in the HOF hitter? Surely there is an AL team that could use a DH of his calibre. Catch him 20-25 games , maybe 15-20 at first and let him rip all year long .2 years at what 3 or 4 mil per for Piazza has to be worth it when you look at the guys yanking down so much more.Let's say he isn't behind the dish taking a beating all year and can give you 285- 25 or 30 hrs maybe 90 to 96 rbis along with his knowledge of hitting , wouldn't it be a bargain? I don't get it. Anyone have any ideas?

  • #2
    I've added the parenthetical after your thread title, to be more relevant to your post.

    Sure he's a future HoFer. Then again, so's Rickey Henderson, but I'll admit he's much older. When someone, especially a catcher, gets up in age, despite his prior work, and the Mets certainly got him in his prime and saw him win many games, often carrying the team.

    However, if I were a GM, I'd look exclusively at his 2005 numbers:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/piazzmi01.shtml

    G: 113
    AB: 398
    BA: .251
    HR: 19
    OPS: .778
    RBI: 62

    I can see the Royals, D-Rays or Tigers making him their regular DH and a backup at each of C and 1B. In that role, unless he's David Ortiz, which he isn't, but seemed like in his prime, I'd think that $2m may be the ceiling for him.
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
    Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
    THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
    Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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    • #3
      I don't think looking at just his last year is fair. He was injured a lot, and couldn't stay in the lineup, and was catching a lot. A move to DH should add points to his average and power. Of course, I am speculating. I agree that he is somewhat of a risk, but he is better than most DH's out there. How many teams really have a DH that you'd rather have than Piazza?

      How many FT DH's really had better numbers last year than you would project for Piazza?

      From ESPN, here are the projected DH's in 2006, with their 2005 lines:

      Baltimore, Javy Lopez .278, 15, 29 in 103 games. $7.5 mm
      Boston, Ortiz .300, 47, 148, in 159 games, $5.25 mm
      Yankees, Bernie, .249, 12, 264 in 141 games, $12.3 mm
      TB, Huff, .261, 22, 92 in 154 game, $4.9 mm
      Toronto, Hillenbrand, .291, 18, 82, in 152 game, $3.9 mm

      Chicago, Thome .207, 7, 30 in 59 games, $13.2 mm
      Cleveland, Haffner, .305, 33, 108 in 137 games, $0.4 mm
      Detroit, Shelton, .299, 18, 59 in 107 games (salary not listed)
      KC, Sweeney, .300, 21, 83 in 122 games, $11 mm
      Minnesota, White, .313, 12, 53 in 97 games, $3.25 mm

      LA, McPherson / Rivers .244, 8, 26 in 61 games (salary not listed) / 271, 15, 59 in 106 games, $0.4 mm
      Oakland, Johnson, .275, 15, 58 in 109 games (salary not listed)
      Seattle, Evertt, .251, 23, 87 in 135 games, $4mm
      Texas, Delucci / Nevin, .254, 29, 65 in 128 games, $0.9 mm / .237, 12, 55 in 102 games, $9.5 mm

      Not exactly a stellar group. The only two from this list that I would take without doubt over Piazza is Ortiz and Hafner. I can understand going with a kid over him, but out of the vets, I'd take him ove Bernie, Lopez, Hillebrand, Thome, Sweeney, White, and Everett. And they are all making much more than $2mm.

      Of course the question isn't whether you'd perer to have Piazza than one of these players, but is there an open spot available. With only 14 DH spots and most filled, he will likely have to take less money than his market value to find a job. I still think he can command in the $4 mm + range based on what the other DH's are making. I also can't understand why he hasn't found a fit yet.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mattingly
        I can see the Royals, D-Rays or Tigers making him their regular DH and a backup at each of C and 1B.

        The Royals need another slowfooted DH/1B like they need another free swinging infielder. Besides we can finish last with or without Piazza.

        In a serious vain, Piazza is just about ready for the scrap heap. He has had FIVE straight years of declining OPS. Now you have to have been one heckuva a hitter at one time to be allowed that kind of drop off and still be in the bigs.
        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Brooklyn
          Of course the question isn't whether you'd perer to have Piazza than one of these players, but is there an open spot available. With only 14 DH spots and most filled, he will likely have to take less money than his market value to find a job. I still think he can command in the $4 mm + range based on what the other DH's are making. I also can't understand why he hasn't found a fit yet.
          You make some excellent points about the existing field, and many thanks for looking up those stats. That's work which shouldn't go unnoticed.

          I'd only take issue with Bernie's stats. True, he did make tons in 2005, but he's only making $1.5m in 2006, and I anticipate that Giambi and Sheffield will combine for another 70-80 games, and perhaps Matsui and Damon also for a combined 10 games.

          I'd agree that he should fit in nicely for an AL team, but after he's had some injuries, particularly around 2004 when his groin muscle completely separated from the bone, I'd be wary about that if I were a GM.

          A 37-year-old catcher who's spent the majority of his time behind the plate is always a risk injury, since that position is the first to break down early. When you're at an age where some NL guys may consider AL teams so that they can DH, that's an additional risk.

          If around $2m, I'd say it's a good risk. For $4m+, that's pretty high for a bench player/DH. Then there's whether or not these teams already have a backup C. If he could be their 3rd catcher in that scenario, and they don't have a regular DH, I could see it happening.
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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          • #6
            I don't see looking at 05 either. My point is he'd be free of the 120 plus games behind the plate. His knees and back would be free of daily strain. He would not have to focus on a pitching staff, in short, he could spend a couple of years hitting the heck out of the ball at a bargain rate.He would also give you a very experienced back up for say 15-20 games or so and be invaluable as a help with young hitters.If he starts hitting like he can he'll put those 3-4 million bucks right into the seats ,too.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lindseynelson
              I don't see looking at 05 either. My point is he'd be free of the 120 plus games behind the plate. His knees and back would be free of daily strain. He would not have to focus on a pitching staff, in short, he could spend a couple of years hitting the heck out of the ball at a bargain rate.He would also give you a very experienced back up for say 15-20 games or so and be invaluable as a help with young hitters.If he starts hitting like he can he'll put those 3-4 million bucks right into the seats ,too.
              Point well taken about not just looking at 2005, as well as his being from of the wear and tear of squatting behind the bag for 9+ innings daily, 3 hours at a time, as well as not having to guide the pitchers also.

              Where do you think he'll play in 2006, if he does sign? Is his agent having any preliminary talks with anyone?
              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
              Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
              THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
              Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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              • #8
                Is the rumor going around still about him playing in Italy?
                I know that your a sucker, for anything acoustic
                -Brand New

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                • #9
                  If I was the GM of a small market, AL team, my first port of call would have been Piazza. Get the dude out of the shin pads and the mask and you can't tell me his hitting isn't going to go through the roof. What you have to remember is as a catcher there's an extra pressure psychologically as well as mentally - if he doesn't have to look after the defence, he can focus more on hitting. That, and if the 1B or C goes down for a week or so, you've got someone who can slip into the role, no questions asked. I'm as mystified as you are, Lindsey.
                  Last edited by BristolBoy; 01-23-2006, 06:39 AM.
                  Ask me to change my sig! Sig changed 7 times, last change requested by MapleSyrupMan!

                  ...Just so you all know, I love being quoted. Even if you're ripping apart my post as awful and stupid, I don't care. Quote me.

                  Officially boycotting all threads with steroid talk; let's focus on the good of the game.

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                  • #10
                    He'd be better off as a DH.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by laxplayer81217
                      Is the rumor going around still about him playing in Italy?
                      I thought he was for a fact ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think you are confusing storeis. He is playing for Italy in the World baseball classic, but is still looking for a MLB job

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I said before I thought the Yankees would be a perfect fit. Give Jorge a proven backup, have a rightie ,lefty middle lineup duo of Giambi and Piazza. Lie I said before 20 or so behind the plate, 20 or so at first spelling Giambi and one heck of a righthanded DH. Tigers would make sense as well .Pudge could use the 20 or so off and could dh when Piazza spelled him keeping his bat in place and Piazza would be a big stick in Detroit.

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                          • #14
                            his best days are gone...but he has ticket sale value

                            As a Dodger he was great, as a Met he was good.
                            Time and the tools of ignorance have caught up with him.
                            He can't throw runners out (which was never a strong point at the best of times) and now he seems to have lost his batting eye.
                            At his age he's a gamble, so a competative team can't really afford him unless they are very strong (which means he won't get to play much) and can carry him for the public relations value.
                            Conversely, if you are not a contender (especially in the American League where he can DH) you might pick him up and use him to sell tickets.
                            If his bat rebounds he's can pass at first as well (as long as you aren't going to win anything).
                            I love him as a player, and yes he's a HOF first ballot guy, he even shows promise as a broadcaster because of his good humour in general and his knowledge of the game in specific.
                            But he's going to be waiting a while to sign unless it's really cheap because he wants to play in a prticular city.
                            If I needed a catcher to "really play" I go for Bengie Monina for a year or two.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lindseynelson
                              I said before I thought the Yankees would be a perfect fit. Give Jorge a proven backup, have a rightie ,lefty middle lineup duo of Giambi and Piazza. Lie I said before 20 or so behind the plate, 20 or so at first spelling Giambi and one heck of a righthanded DH. Tigers would make sense as well .Pudge could use the 20 or so off and could dh when Piazza spelled him keeping his bat in place and Piazza would be a big stick in Detroit.
                              I'm guessing that Bernie would be the primary DH for the Yanks. If they got Piazza, then Bernie's signing would've been essentially wasted.

                              The Phillies seem to have some interest, but I've heard that he wants in the $7-8m range, from what I heard on the radio. I presume that Cashman didn't like the asking price, seeing Bernie, who'd had a similar 7-year deal as Mikey, is only making $1.5-2m in 2006.

                              Hot Stove: Piazza on front burner
                              Veteran backstop in headlines; Reds hire Beattie

                              Interest in free agent catcher Mike Piazza is picking up some steam on the Hot Stove circuit.

                              At last count Tuesday, reports indicate that seven Major League organizations have either shown interest in the veteran receiver with 12 All-Star appearances on his resume -- or vice versa.

                              Two published reports out of New York on Tuesday indicated that Piazza's agents contacted the Yankees on Monday, measuring the team's interest in the catcher. Exactly how receptive club officials were remains uncertain.

                              Newsday reported that although the Yankees "can't yet be considered aggressive pursuers" for Piazza, general manager Brian Cashman did not dismiss the idea.

                              "We're fairly set," Cashman said. "Our designated hitter spot is taken by Bernie Williams and Andy Phillips. But I'll keep an open mind. I'm always open to consider any possibility that may help the ballclub."
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                              Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                              THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                              Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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