Crisp Trade Completed!

[BoofBonser26]

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060127&content_id=1302146&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

As an Indians fan, h h h

[BoofBonser26]

What's going on?!?!? That link used to go to the Crisp trade! Did anyone else see that? There was an MLB article on it!!!

[TonyK]

Thanks for the link. As a Red Sox fan I think it may be a few years before we know how this helped both teams. Injuries may decide who got the better of the deal.

I understand the thinking of the Red Sox front office the past four weeks: Keep Damon, age 32, at 13 million or get Crisp, age 26, at only 3 or 4 million. If Coco hits .300 then all three Sox GM's look like geniuses.

The Indians are gambling that Marte will be as good or better than Crisp.

[pacewon]

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle

As an Indians fan, h h h

I can understand you being upset if you had an emotional attachment to Crisp, but your team has done great for themselves thru this move.

Marte is putting up numbers similar to those posted by Chipper Jones at the same age and level. He's a consensus top 10 prospect (probably top 5). You acquired Jason Michaels to help soften the blow of losing Crisp; Michaels is a good defender that posts solid OBPs, and all you had to give up for him was a mid-30s reliever that had an out-of-context year in 2005.

You can't really blast Boston for this, since they were desperate for a CF, but I think looking back on this in a few years, Cleveland will surely be ahead.

[pacewon]

This is also worth repeating: while Crisp is generally regarded as an outstanding left fielder, he's going to be playing CF in Boston. He has 188 games as a CF under his belt, and his RAA is -12.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/crispco01.shtml

Take it for what it's worth.

[DoubleX]

Bad trade for the Indians who are built to compete now, and for a team that is financially convervative and will have to make some tough decisions in a few years on its star players (Hafner, Martinez, Peralta, Sizemore), they should have kept this team intact for as long as possible and compete while they can. Plus, not only does Cleveland weaken itself for this season, but it strengthens a team that could possibly be rivaling Cleveland for the Wild Card playoff spot.

[SoxSon]

This is also worth repeating: while Crisp is generally regarded as an outstanding left fielder, he's going to be playing CF in Boston. He has 188 games as a CF under his belt, and his RAA is -12.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/crispco01.shtml

Take it for what it's worth.

You should add that one year, 2004, certainly skewed Crisp's RAA in center field. His three other years are just barely below 0. The four taken as a whole are not consistently abysmal by any means. Add to that a career RAA of 11 in left, and I think you're painting the picture of a young, raw player. Clearly, for now, this was a good move by Boston. I think most fans would agree.

[Dasperp]

I disagree that this was a bad move for cleveland, i think it was great. Michaels will be a slight downgrade from Crisp, but Marte will be a significant upgrade over Boone. They'll have him under control for 6 years and that will add another great young hitter to the lineup. Its fair to say Crisp doesn't have much upside beyond what he already has done. He was never projected to be as good as he has been, and both scouting reports and defensive metrics agree that he is a questionable defender in center. I don't trust BP's Rate or FRAA at all, but UZR and Gassko's RAA both agree that he has been great in left, but pretty bad in center (Gassko had him at -20 there in 2004). That said, Crisp is an offensive upgrade over Damon, and moving from Jacobs to Fenway he could put up a .315/.365/.490 line. The Sox probably have the second best offense in the majors at this point, but have question marks in their rotation, bullpen, and outfield defense. I'd put them and the yankees about even, and project both of them for around 92 wins.

[TonyK]

Dasperp: You really think Crisp is an offensive upgrade over Damon?

[SoxSon]

Dasperp: You really think Crisp is an offensive upgrade over Damon?

You took the words out of my mouth, TonyK.

[Astro]

Bad trade for the Indians who are built to compete now, and for a team that is financially convervative and will have to make some tough decisions in a few years on its star players (Hafner, Martinez, Peralta, Sizemore), they should have kept this team intact for as long as possible and compete while they can. Plus, not only does Cleveland weaken itself for this season, but it strengthens a team that could possibly be rivaling Cleveland for the Wild Card playoff spot.

I disagree... there is no reason to think Marte cant come up and contribute right away... 2 of the star players you listed (Sizemore and Peralta) did just that in their first full seasons

[SoxSon]

I disagree... there is no reason to think Marte cant come up and contribute right away... 2 of the star players you listed (Sizemore and Peralta) did just that in their first full seasons

Don't you think, though, that with almost any prospect, a team has to assume that he won't be able to come up big right away?

[Dasperp]

You really think Crisp is an offensive upgrade over Damon?

I think there's about a 70% chance he'll be better. It all depends on whether he really has improved over the last couple of years, or if he was just lucky Last year Damon posted a .316/.366/.439 line for Boston. That translates to a 113 OPS+. Crisp posted a .300/.345/.465 line for Cleveland, an OPS+ of 119. Jacobs field has been the number one pitcher's park in the AL over the last few years, while Fenway massively inflates batting average (that's why Crisp has the better OPS+). Meanwhile, Damon is 32 and entering his decline phase and Crisp is 26 and entering his prime.

[BoofBonser26]

I disagree... there is no reason to think Marte cant come up and contribute right away... 2 of the star players you listed (Sizemore and Peralta) did just that in their first full seasons

Peralta suffered an infamous 2003 filling in for the injured Vizquel and went back to AAA in '04 where he belonged (at the time). Sizemore was very carefully watched and management made sure he'd contribute before they let him up to the bigs.

[DoubleX]

I disagree... there is no reason to think Marte cant come up and contribute right away... 2 of the star players you listed (Sizemore and Peralta) did just that in their first full seasons

Everything I've heard about Marte is that he's still probably a year away and while he has good power, he doesn't hit for average very well yet. Acquiring Marte is a move for the future, and it might pan out, and might not, but as Evangelion said in the Sox forum a few days ago, why have two teams been so willing to move Marte this offseason if he's such a can't miss prospect? The fact the Braves moved him says a lot to me as Schuerholz has shown a lot of savvy with his farm system - he always seems to know which prospects to give up and which to keep, meaning that the blue chippers he gives up, never seem to reach their potential after being traded.