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  • #16
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Everything I've heard about Marte is that he's still probably a year away and while he has good power, he doesn't hit for average very well yet. Acquiring Marte is a move for the future, and it might pan out, and might not, but as Evangelion said in the Sox forum a few days ago, why have two teams been so willing to move Marte this offseason if he's such a can't miss prospect? The fact the Braves moved him says a lot to me as Schuerholz has shown a lot of savvy with his farm system - he always seems to know which prospects to give up and which to keep, meaning that the blue chippers he gives up, never seem to reach their potential after being traded.
    #1 Prospect according to Baseball Prospectus 2005

    The Braves dont need him, they have Chipper... so why not move him for an all-star SS

    The Red Sox traded for him, just to trade him... they have Lowell's monster contract at 3b

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    • #17
      Im not convinced about this trade. I was excited about seeing WILLIAM Mota this year, and Andy Marte is a great prospect, but hey, we got a solid center fielder in Coco Crisp in return. I will have to wait until the season starts to judge this trade.
      I know that your a sucker, for anything acoustic
      -Brand New

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      • #18
        This trade will take a few seasons to determine who got the better end of it

        Just dont know if Crisp will be able to match last season numbers
        Last edited by Astro; 01-28-2006, 04:20 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Astro
          and a solid CF who isnt that far behind Crisp
          WHAT?
          CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

          1920 1948 1954 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2001 2007

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          • #20
            Originally posted by BoofBonser26
            WHAT?
            Sorry, not convinced on Crisp being a a all-star type player yet... he puts up solid numbers, but not all-star numbers... just think if you can get a top prospect for someone like him you should jump on it, guess Cleveland thought so too

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            • #21
              why have two teams been so willing to move Marte this offseason if he's such a can't miss prospect?
              Why have two teams, both with good to great GM's, traded for him? You'd think that if there was something significantly wrong with him then these teams, or BA or John Sickels or some other scout would have seen it. i think its just a matter of both the braves and the Sox playing for today. The braves had Chipper at third for the forseeable future, and the Sox desperately needed a centerfielder to have any chance of keeping pace with the Yanks in 2006.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Astro
                This trade will take a few seasons to determine who got the better end of it

                Just dont know if Crisp will be able to match last season numbers
                I see you edited your post. I agree with your new statement a bit more. I personally think Crisp will only get better, but now that he's in the national spotlight he not only needs to match last year's numbers, but improve them.
                CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

                1920 1948 1954 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2001 2007

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BoofBonser26
                  I see you edited your post. I agree with your new statement a bit more. I personally think Crisp will only get better, but now that he's in the national spotlight he not only needs to match last year's numbers, but improve them.
                  Edited while you were typing yours, didnt see your post till after I had edited it.... edited it because I'm not quite sure of the entire deal... some sources say Mota is in it, some dont... some say Riske is in it, some dont...

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                  • #24
                    I still don't know, I think the sox need help in the bullpen seriously. I was extremely excited to see WILLIAM Mota this year, because he is a solid player. This may help now, but they just gave up Marte who will be amazing.
                    I know that your a sucker, for anything acoustic
                    -Brand New

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BoofBonser26
                      Here's a link from the indians.mlb.com site:

                      Tribe finalizes two deals in a day
                      Mota, Marte, Shoppach and Michaels headed to Cleveland

                      CLEVELAND -- All week, as widespread reports of a possible trade sending Coco Crisp to the Red Sox raged on, Indians general manager Mark Shapiro stuck to his assertion that a deal is not a deal until it's a deal.
                      Finally, the Indians have a deal.

                      Two of them, in fact.

                      As had been speculated all week, the Indians shipped left-hander Arthur Rhodes to the Phillies for outfielder Jason Michaels on Friday night, prompting a larger deal that sent Crisp to Boston.
                      Personally, I'm more interested in seeing how well he does defensively in CF, as he'd been playing LF for awhile. He'll certainly have a large group of fans looking for him to succeed, but I'd have to see what happens.
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                      • #26
                        This hurts.

                        Forget about the numbers, forget about the prospects and how this trade will pan out over the years. As a fan, I don't deal from the business perspective. I build from the perspective that Crisp was a great player to have in the 2 hole behind Sizemore, in front of Peralta, Hafner and Martinez. He fit where he was. He played an above average LF and was just a generally delightful human being that you enjoy watching play the game. Now I have to watch him play for The Red Sox? I don't want to watch him make that team better. And for those that question, Crisp is good. He needs a bit more plate discipline and a good first few steps stealing bases, but - if he can do those two things - wow.

                        Jason Michaels may work out. Marte? Nobody knows. Mota? I liked him a lot as a Dodger, but ever since he left Dodger Blue - he hasn't been the same. If he can get back what Gagne helped him to obtain - he'll be a monster out of the bullpen. Possibly even ready for the closer role if Wickman gets hurt or shows his age.

                        I really hope that this works out for The Indians, but ... Crisp was a fan favorite. When that is the case, it's not about what's improving the team down the road and all of the other business hooplah. He's a fascinating player - with a great life story, by the way. He will be missed.

                        One more thing. This doesn't give us Indian fans much hope. After Shapiro dismantled the old, loveable team ... he's not showing us that he's committed to putting a consitent team on the field every year. He's going to have us wondering ... "Who's next?"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Brannu
                          Forget about the numbers, forget about the prospects and how this trade will pan out over the years. As a fan, I don't deal from the business perspective. I build from the perspective that Crisp was a great player to have in the 2 hole behind Sizemore, in front of Peralta, Hafner and Martinez. He fit where he was. He played an above average LF and was just a generally delightful human being that you enjoy watching play the game. Now I have to watch him play for The Red Sox? I don't want to watch him make that team better. And for those that question, Crisp is good. He needs a bit more plate discipline and a good first few steps stealing bases, but - if he can do those two things - wow.

                          Jason Michaels may work out. Marte? Nobody knows. Mota? I liked him a lot as a Dodger, but ever since he left Dodger Blue - he hasn't been the same. If he can get back what Gagne helped him to obtain - he'll be a monster out of the bullpen. Possibly even ready for the closer role if Wickman gets hurt or shows his age.

                          I really hope that this works out for The Indians, but ... Crisp was a fan favorite. When that is the case, it's not about what's improving the team down the road and all of the other business hooplah. He's a fascinating player - with a great life story, by the way. He will be missed.

                          One more thing. This doesn't give us Indian fans much hope. After Shapiro dismantled the old, loveable team ... he's not showing us that he's committed to putting a consitent team on the field every year. He's going to have us wondering ... "Who's next?"
                          Thats why fans arent GMs, a team that doesnt have a big payroll becomes very good by trading good players for prospects who turn into great ones

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dasperp
                            I think there's about a 70% chance he'll be better. It all depends on whether he really has improved over the last couple of years, or if he was just lucky Last year Damon posted a .316/.366/.439 line for Boston. That translates to a 113 OPS+. Crisp posted a .300/.345/.465 line for Cleveland, an OPS+ of 119. Jacobs field has been the number one pitcher's park in the AL over the last few years, while Fenway massively inflates batting average (that's why Crisp has the better OPS+). Meanwhile, Damon is 32 and entering his decline phase and Crisp is 26 and entering his prime.
                            My hunch is 50%. He is younger and will play in Fenway, but Damon will have something to prove to his new teammates.
                            "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                            "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Astro
                              Thats why fans arent GMs, a team that doesnt have a big payroll becomes very good by trading good players for prospects who turn into great ones

                              Looking at what Cleveland did last year with a core group of guys, and considering the fact that this kind of team does not crop up too often in cities like Cleveland, I'm really not sure how you can think that this was definitely a good move for the Indians. Marte may prove to be stellar in a few years, but I have a sinking feeling that Cleveland's "shot" was this coming season. For the Indians' sake, I hope I'm wrong.
                              "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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                              • #30
                                What hasn't been mentioned in the trade, is that the Red Sox had to include a case of Wheaties and five gallons of milk.

                                Bob

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