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Joe Girardi Says No to Facial Hair

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mattingly
    That would be a religious exception. There are many Orthodox Jews with long beards. I think it's mostly the ultra-Orthodox like the Satmar, Hasidic, Lubbavitcher and such who have the longer beards, wear the tassels, etc, but they'd surely wear a yarmulke. Would they wear a yarmulke under their cap or in lieu of one?

    Having grown up in Brooklyn, I've seen Orthodox Jews as well as many dreadlocked men (and a few women as well). Flatbush, Brooklyn has many West Indians, so that's nothing unique to me. As to their being in baseball, I'm wondering if there's a precedent.

    I presume that most players are not ultra-Orthodox Jewish, nor the many Arabs who also have long beards, nor the dreadlocked Jamaican and other West Indian men, nor the Indians or Pakistanis who wear turbans. I'm sure I've missed a few, but can't go on forever. Oh yeah, the Amish in Pennsylvania also have beards.

    Unless it interferes with religious worship, I don't see the cutting of the beard as a problem.
    I understand where you're coming from. I'm just one of those individuals that doesn't like my freedom of expression being curtailed by someone elses personal philosophy.

    (Slams his guiness on the table and yells, "Up the rebels!!")

    But, then again, for $5mil/yr. - I would probably change my mind.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Brannu
      I understand where you're coming from. I'm just one of those individuals that doesn't like my freedom of expression being curtailed by someone elses personal philosophy.

      (Slams his guiness on the table and yells, "Up the rebels!!")
      Hear, hear!! With you 100%.

      But, then again, for $5mil/yr. - I would probably change my mind.
      Since no one is ever going to offer me $5M a year for anything, I can't say whether I'd bend my principles to acquiesce. I hope I wouldn't.

      Of course I will use the Red Sox as an example. For the last few year's they've been wildly undisciplined in the hair department and extraordinarily dedicated to their game. They get along; they respect their manager, owners and fans, and do tons of community work. Is all this moot because they happened to have untamed locks and scruffy beards? Were they not worthy of respect as ballplayers and as people because they didn't conform to a corporate "look"? What if it were the other way around and the players were forced by house rules to grow beards and long hair?

      I say again, as long as they're clean and show respect to the game, they can grow ponytails for all I care.
      --Annie
      Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
      Remember Yellowdog
      ABNY

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      • #18
        Fish don't have hair, wonder if facial scales will be ok?
        Yankee Tunnel Vision!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Brannu
          I see this more as a power trip than an actual aim to do something that improves the quality of baseball in Florida. I think the quality of baseball may be a bit more important than facial hair.
          I thoroughly agree, Brannu.
          Those who think discipline is about hair length should take a look at contradictory perceptions evident in several other cultures.
          "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SoxSon
            I thoroughly agree, Brannu.
            Those who think discipline is about hair length should take a look at contradictory perceptions evident in several other cultures.
            For example?
            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
            Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
            THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
            Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mattingly
              For example?
              Off the cuff, I'm thinking about aspects of Chinese, Japanese and Native American cultures. All of which are often regarded as highly disciplined, at least in historical arguments. Hair has often been a symbol of strength and power, and by extension, discipline.

              Edit: This includes, naturally, the inclusion of various forms of facial hair, particularly in the Orient.
              Last edited by SoxSon; 02-07-2006, 02:48 PM.
              "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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              • #22
                Originally posted by SoxSon
                Off the cuff, I'm thinking about aspects of Chinese, Japanese and Native American cultures. All of which are often regarded as highly disciplined, at least in historical arguments. Hair has often been a symbol of strength and power, and by extension, discipline.

                Edit: This includes, naturally, the inclusion of various forms of facial hair, particularly in the Orient.
                I wasn't sure if you were referring to sports (as in the Red Sox) or life in general (like Asian culture).

                I'm not as familiar with Asian culture to speak with much confidence as to hair length. Who amongst them (preferably the men, since this is a male sport) are you referring to that has the longer hair?
                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                • #23
                  Professional athletes looking professional is an excellent concept. Somewhere Joe McCarthy is smiling.

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                  • #24
                    baseball players are professionals. If their boss i.e. manager says they should look professional then it should be treated as such. At my workplace, we arent allowed beards in our office Its just an office policy. we can have mustaches, but no beards. I may not like it, but its the part I have to play to be an engineer.

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                    • #25
                      Maybe Girardi is trying to get Steinbrenner's attentionso he's in the running early as Joe Torre's replacement in New York.
                      Like Maple Syrup, Canada's evil oozes over the United States.

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                      • #26
                        Professional athletes looking professional is an excellent concept. Somewhere Joe McCarthy is smiling
                        I nominate this post for the award for unintentional hilarity.

                        Personally, i think its just dumb to ban facial hair. Some people look better with facial hair and some just like not having to shave every day. It's not a sign of a lazy person and has nothing to do with professionalism. Can anybody give me one good reason for doing something like this?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Chris from NY
                          Maybe Girardi is trying to get Steinbrenner's attentionso he's in the running early as Joe Torre's replacement in New York.
                          More like bringing Steinbrenner's work ethic with him. He was Torre's bench coach last season, since replaced by Yankee 1B coach-turned-Oriole manager, Lee Mazzilli. He also mentored Posada on catching a little bit.
                          Originally posted by Dasperp
                          I nominate this post for the award for unintentional hilarity.

                          Personally, i think its just dumb to ban facial hair. Some people look better with facial hair and some just like not having to shave every day. It's not a sign of a lazy person and has nothing to do with professionalism. Can anybody give me one good reason for doing something like this?
                          Did you read the rest of the thread? It connotes professionalism and can be seen as promoting that kind of thing, both on and off the field.

                          Isn't that why guys at work are expected to wear pressed shirts, ties, clean suit, etc?
                          Last edited by Mattingly; 02-07-2006, 05:22 PM.
                          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                          • #28
                            Did you read the rest of the thread? It connotes professionalism and can be seen as promoting that kind of thing, both on and off the field
                            Why? There are plenty of lawyers and doctors who have beards and i don't think anything of it. I've never heard of a law firm, for example, that has a no facial hair policy. If you want to say that the facial hair has to be well groomed then thats fine, but i fail to see how a well-kept goatee makes somebody look less professional. Furthermore, this isn't a law firm or anything like that. It's a game and it's purpose is to provide entertainment, not to promote standards of however you define "professionalism".

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dasperp
                              Why? There are plenty of lawyers and doctors who have beards and i don't think anything of it. I've never heard of a law firm, for example, that has a no facial hair policy. If you want to say that the facial hair has to be well groomed then thats fine, but i fail to see how a well-kept goatee makes somebody look less professional. Furthermore, this isn't a law firm or anything like that. It's a game and it's purpose is to provide entertainment, not to promote standards of however you define "professionalism".
                              You may actually try reading some of the employee manuals of some of the various law firms. In NYC, there are tons of firms that have codes re male facial hair, dress codes for men and women.
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                              Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                              THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                              Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                              • #30
                                I don't know. I just seem to think that if you are a professional and you are able to do your job the way that it is supposed to be done, you should be able to style your hair any way that you please. I did, however, worry about this in my move to Albuquerque, where the culture norms are a little less hip, but, I was able to find an alternative enough educational environment that is accepting of the "outside of the box" style of expression.

                                Annie -
                                Since no one is ever going to offer me $5M a year for anything, I can't say whether I'd bend my principles to acquiesce. I hope I wouldn't.

                                I am really a man of integrity. I have very firm values in my mind that help me to toe the line of righteousness and uphold a standard of morality that stays true to what I believe is right and just. I know, deep down, that if offered a $5 million I would not cut my hair ... that is a sacrifice that I have offered The Divine (sorry for the spiritual bent). Yet, it would still be a challenge because in many ways, $5 million means freedom from the demands of other people. And that, my wonderful friend, is a personal need of my soul.

                                Wouldn't it be interesting if a player demanded a trade because he didn't want to follow such authoritarian practices?

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