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Will we ever see another 300 game winner?

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  • Will we ever see another 300 game winner?

    Besides for some guys who are old and have an outside chance at 300, (Glavine, Randy, Mussina), do you think we will see another 300 game winner in our lifetimes

    Basically, do you see any of today's great young pitchers (Willis, Oswalt, Santana..) having any chance at all? I think the nature of the game now makes it almost impossible and 250 will probably become the new 300.

    What do you guys think?
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

  • #2
    All the hoopla about five man rotations, specialist relievers, blah, blah, blah is just lame. Of course we will see future 300 game winners. Maddux, Clemens, Glavine, and Johnson all pitched in the ere of five man pitching staffs. There are several pitchers who have 300 game potential:

    Hudson
    Mulder
    Sabathia
    Willis
    Santana


    Now, there is no guarantee any of these pitchers will make it of course. But they are having the types of early careers that can lead to 300 wins.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #3
      People always say, "oh that records unbreakable", no it may be unlikely, but there is always a chance that someone else will come along and accomplish it as well. As far as seeing more 300 game winners is concerned, sure we will see more. But it is hard to pick and choose who will do it. There is so much involved in winning 300 games that with young pitchers, you can't really know what will happen.

      First off you need a pitcher who is top of the line, one of the better pitchers out there, you aren't going to win 300 games, averaging 12 wins a season (Although technically you could), but you also need durability. You need to be able to last those 20 some odd years to accomplish it, and that is the harder thing to tell. You can see who has the talent to reach it (the Willis' and J.Santana's), but can they play for 20 years, with the ups and downs, getting past injuries, deal with the wear and tear?

      We will see more 300 game winners, but I don't want to go on a limb to say who will, although the couple players you mentioned do have legitimate shots.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think Pedro could be the next guy (after Randy, Mussina or Glavine) to do it - 197 wins at age 33, needs to average 15 wins for 7 more seasons. Pettite also has an outside chance.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GiambiJuice
          Besides for some guys who are old and have an outside chance at 300, (Glavine, Randy, Mussina), do you think we will see another 300 game winner in our lifetimes

          Basically, do you see any of today's great young pitchers (Willis, Oswalt, Santana..) having any chance at all? I think the nature of the game now makes it almost impossible and 250 will probably become the new 300.

          What do you guys think?
          I think there will be some in the future beyond those you noted.
          I think they will become fewer and farther between.

          The same goes for the 3000 hit club.
          1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tigerfan1974
            The same goes for the 3000 hit club.
            Why do you say that?
            My top 10 players:

            1. Babe Ruth
            2. Barry Bonds
            3. Ty Cobb
            4. Ted Williams
            5. Willie Mays
            6. Alex Rodriguez
            7. Hank Aaron
            8. Honus Wagner
            9. Lou Gehrig
            10. Mickey Mantle

            Comment


            • #7
              300 wins has become a very tough nut. A guy is going to need some longevity and the good fortune to play on decent offensive teams.

              The 3,000 hit club is much easier. With the health and conditioning of modern players this has become a much easier, though not easy, task. Cal Ripken had 3184 hits over a 20 year career. Given the amount of at bats he had a .260 hitter would have gotten 3000 hits.
              Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tigerfan1974
                The same goes for the 3000 hit club.
                There are actually several legitimate cases for players reaching 3,000 hits.

                If they decide to stay:
                Biggio - 1 1/2 years
                Bonds - 2 years

                Depending on health:
                Sheffield - 164 hits/year; 4 years
                Griffey Jr. - 140 hits/year; 5 years

                They are all still young and great hitters:
                Jeter - 177 hits/year; 6 years
                Man-Ram - 154 hits/year; 7 years
                A-Rod - 184 hits/year; 6 years

                A look toward the future:
                Juan Pierre - 179 hits/year; 11 years
                Albert Pujols - 183 hits/year; 11 years

                I'm sure there are others out there with shots, but these are a few of the notables. Of the younger crowd, Pujols has the best chance, Pierre, does to, but he seems a bit erratic (good, bad, good, bad). A-rod is turning 30 this year, and will pass 2000 hits (as will jeter and man-ram), so in the next 10 years, he should be able to come up with a measly 1000+ hits. Griffey if he can stay healthy, or DH's still has a shot at 3,000, and if Sheffield keeps it up, he will too. If Bonds stays, he could reach it in 2 seasons (258 hits needed - 129/season), and Biggio should be sticking around to collect the final 205 hits he needs.

                Anyways, back to the 300 game winners...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tigerfan1974
                  I think there will be some in the future beyond those you noted.
                  I think they will become fewer and farther between.

                  The same goes for the 3000 hit club.
                  You realize we only had eight 3000 hit guys up through the beginning of 1970, and EIGHTEEN since then
                  Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                  Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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                  • #10
                    Winning 300 games has ALWAYS been difficult. Through most of baseball history there have been only a few through each era. Then came the 1960s. This generation produced an unusally high number of 300 game winners. These pitchers debuted between 1962-1967:

                    Gaylord Perry (1962)
                    Phil Niekro (1964)
                    Steve Carlton (1965)
                    Don Sutton (1966)
                    Nolan Ryan (1966)
                    Tom Seaver (1967)

                    Not only that but it also produced:

                    Jim Kaat (1959)
                    Tommy John (1963)
                    Ferguson Jenkins (1965)
                    Bert Blyleven (1970)

                    all who won over 280 games. What this did was that it put the impression in many baseball fans that every generation should have 6-10 300 game winners and this historically has not be so. One reason this happened in the 1960s is that this was a time where 280-300 IP seasons and 38-42 GS were common.

                    But from 1941 (Lefy Grove) until 1962 (Warren Sphan) there were no 300 game winners. Also I tend to discount the 19th century 300 game winners a bit. With guys racking up 40-50 win seasons, 300 wins isn't quite the same as winning 300 game in the modern era.
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Twice as many complete games last season

                      Originally posted by Edgartohof
                      Anyways, back to the 300 game winners...
                      Hitters, go get your own thread already.

                      More than any other sport, baseball is cyclical in nature, and the specialized pitching is starting to wane a bit, thank gooseness. For instance, last year there were more than double the number of complete games thrown in the majors, as there were in the '04 campaign. I'm banking that this wasn't a fluke, it is a pattern that will continue through the rest of the decade. There are a lot of good strong arms out there, even Pedro (remember the knock he couldn't go past 6 2/3 innings any more?) Martinez twirled a couple of nine inning gems last season. I see no reason why several young pitchers couldn't last long enough on good teams to reach that milestone that ends in a zero. I personally don't put much emphasis on W-L, but since nearly everyone else uses it as the best measure I do look at them. Glavine and Johnson are likely to hang around to get that magic number, Pedro and Pettitte have the most the quickest among the guys near 200. I really thought Russ Ortiz would be closing in on the lead for most wins at the youngest age among active pitchers, but that last season with the D'Backs was a nightmare (5-15? or so). Colon at 139 in 9, and Hudson with 106 in 7, seem to be the guys that could reach that 300 plateau if the arms last, the teams keep winning, the specialists go back to the minors where they belong, and especially if they restore the mound to it's proper height.:atthepc
                      Last edited by trosmok; 02-10-2006, 08:54 AM.
                      Baseball is a ballet without music. Drama without words ~Ernie Harwell

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Barnstormer
                        I think Pedro could be the next guy (after Randy, Mussina or Glavine) to do it - 197 wins at age 33, needs to average 15 wins for 7 more seasons. Pettite also has an outside chance.
                        No way Pedro pitches 7 more seasons...he will be lucky to finish this contract out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Any change to reduce the offense will help the top pitchers in MLB. Add some luck with which team a pitcher gets to play for. AL pitchers with the DH don't have to bat reducing the chance for injury or for HBP's too. Throw in a 100 mph fastball, and 300 wins is possible. We may someday see more than 162 games per season and that would affect individual records.
                          "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                          "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GiambiJuice
                            Besides for some guys who are old and have an outside chance at 300, (Glavine, Randy, Mussina), do you think we will see another 300 game winner in our lifetimes

                            Basically, do you see any of today's great young pitchers (Willis, Oswalt, Santana..) having any chance at all? I think the nature of the game now makes it almost impossible and 250 will probably become the new 300.

                            What do you guys think?
                            Most of BF believes we will, as seen in my topic's poll from this summer

                            http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=30194

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              With all due respect, a grand total of 11 people voted...I wouldn't call that most of Baseball Fever.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment

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