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  • Kyler Murray: MLB or NFL?

    This story about college football/baseball phenom Kyler Murray caught my eye. People are always going on and on about how a lot of the best athletes, especially African-American athletes, chose the NFL over MLB. But Kyler Murray, nephew of former major leaguer Calvin Murray, was drafted and signed by the Oakland A's. Right now Murray is apparently picking baseball over football. By all accounts Murray is an extraordinary athlete, even by NFL standards. He is the front runner to win the Heisman Trophy. There is some talk that Murray may try to play both sports. According to Mel Kiper, Jr, Murray is a first round talent. According to Kiper If Murray, who is 5'10", 190 lbs, was three inches taller he would be the #1 pick in the NFL draft.

    After a historic season, will Kyler Murray still give up on football?
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Murray's scouting report going into the 2018 MLB draft.

    ************************************************** ************************************************** ****
    Kyler Murray

    Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 70 | Arm: 40 | Field: 55 | Overall: 50

    The best athlete in the 2015 Draft, Murray drew first-round interest from several clubs but opted out of the process because he was also the nation's top-rated dual threat quarterback prospect and wanted to play football and baseball at Texas A&M. Despite playing regularly as a freshman for the Aggies, he opted to transfer to Oklahoma, where he had to sit out 2016 before backing up Heisman Trophy winner Baker Mayfield last fall. After looking overmatched at the plate in his return to baseball with the Sooners last spring and in the Cape Cod League last summer, he has shown dramatic improvement as a redshirt sophomore.

    Though he continues to juggle two sports and has lost a lot of at-bats while doing so, Murray has made impressive adjustments at the plate. He's making better contact and no longer is easy prey for breaking balls, doing a better job of recognizing them and not chasing them off the plate. He has the plus-plus speed to create havoc on the bases and the bat speed and strength to produce average power.

    The son of former Texas A&M quarterback and Brewers farmhand Kevin Murray and the nephew of two-time first-rounder and five-year big leaguer Calvin Murray, Kyler still needs to reduce his strikeouts further and is a work in progress defensively. He's learning reads and routes but has the quickness to outrun his mistakes and eventually could become at least a solid center fielder. His arm has regressed on the diamond and currently plays below average.

    With his tools and the surprising progress he has made in 2018, Murray once again is in position to command a multimillion-dollar bonus. However, it may be virtually impossible to get him to give up football when he's a leading contender to helm one of college football's top offenses. He'll turn 21 shortly after the Draft and needs to get going with his baseball career if that's going to be his future.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

    Comment


    • #3
      He has question marks for both. In baseball he could be a star but his skills are a little raw and he would probably take longer than the typical college player.

      and as a QB he is good but also a little undersized for nfl. Can he take tackles from nfl defenders?
      I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

      Comment


      • #4
        He is raw baseball wise for his age. He's already 21 years old. Someone compared him to Rickey Henderson which I thought was patently ridiculous. At age 21 Rickey was in his second major league season stealing 100 bases, making his first All Star team, and finished 10th in the MVP voting. If Murray is truly serious about baseball he needs to start his pro baseball career ASAP.
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dominik View Post
          He has question marks for both. In baseball he could be a star but his skills are a little raw and he would probably take longer than the typical college player.

          and as a QB he is good but also a little undersized for nfl. Can he take tackles from nfl defenders?
          Yeah, I would agree. If he was taller I would say football, but according to some sources he is really more like 5'9" which is pretty short to play qb. He is definitely a risk.

          I know he is talented, but I question him in baseball. His production was NOT all that spectacular at the college level. He has tools, but lots of raw guys with tools never pan out. He also missed this summer, which is big deal. He needs as much seasoning as possible, and he could have played this summer and then possibly in the Arizona fall league. He will be basically 22 next year, and that is old for a guy to be so raw. Having said all of that, Billy Beane does not like tools guys, so for him to sign off on someone as risky as Murray there probably is something there. I'm not saying Billy Beane is perfect, but this type of guy is exactly the type I think he would avoid.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think once he starts to narrowly focus on JUST baseball, then his development will take off. It might take him a season or two to get used to the pro-ball grind, but with each additional rep, he'll have an opportunity to refine his impressive skillset. I could see him having a similar development path as Lorenzo Cain, who had ability but lacked reps until pro-ball. I could see him breaking in at 23 or 24, showing promise before it starts to click later in his mid-20's. I feel like there's a wide range of outcomes - he could never learn how to hit major league pitching, or he could turn into an All-Star 5-tool outfielder. I'm excited to see what type of player he becomes.
            Rest in Peace Jose Fernandez (1992-2016)

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the question is what round he would be drafted in the MLB draft? The signing money for minor leaguers drops pretty quickly.

              If he is guaranteed $8 million by the NFL (based on draft position), and say $1 million by MLB, he should go with the NFL. It seems like the probability of him being a good to star player in the NFL is higher. Perhaps the MLB long term money ceiling is higher (unless you are an upper half NFL starting QB), but the likelihood is less.

              Basically guaranteed safety vs. ceiling possibility.


              Originally posted by Francoeurstein View Post
              I feel like there's a wide range of outcomes - he could never learn how to hit major league pitching, or he could turn into an All-Star 5-tool outfielder.
              Yes, that is the danger with MLB.



              EDIT: I commented before reading the article....the comments above refer to the choice if he hadn't been drafted yet.
              Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 01-07-2019, 08:48 AM.
              R.I.P. Scott Sanderson (1956-2019)


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              • #8
                MLB teams always drool over these "elite" athletes. But most of them never become superstar players, especially the ones that play little baseball as teens and get late starts to their careers. The Mays, Mantle,Trout types always play a lot of baseball as teens. I guess Murray is more like Mookie Betts in terms of size and weight? But Betts was drafted out of high school and debuted in the majors at age 21.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                  MLB teams always drool over these "elite" athletes. But most of them never become superstar players, especially the ones that play little baseball as teens and get late starts to their careers. The Mays, Mantle,Trout types always play a lot of baseball as teens. I guess Murray is more like Mookie Betts in terms of size and weight? But Betts was drafted out of high school and debuted in the majors at age 21.
                  The White Sox in the last 20 years have drafted an amazing number of great high round "athletes" that the Kenny Williams regime has basically drooled over. Time after time, they were raved about. They constantly have been touted as great athletes who will become excellent players. Almost without fail (in case I missed a single one!), they have been busts. One thing I'll note is that most of the time, these "athletes" were position players.

                  I've seen way too many Jared Mitchells and Courtney Hawkins in the drafts. I prefer baseball players than "athletes".
                  R.I.P. Scott Sanderson (1956-2019)


                  Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                  Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                  Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post

                    The White Sox in the last 20 years have drafted an amazing number of great high round "athletes" that the Kenny Williams regime has basically drooled over. Time after time, they were raved about. They constantly have been touted as great athletes who will become excellent players. Almost without fail (in case I missed a single one!), they have been busts. One thing I'll note is that most of the time, these "athletes" were position players.

                    I've seen way too many Jared Mitchells and Courtney Hawkins in the drafts. I prefer baseball players than "athletes".
                    It's the whole "John Kruk vs Bo Jackson" debate. Who was the better actual baseball player? A few years ago fangraphs did a whole series on scouting. And one major point that was made right at the beginning is that there is a difference between traditional athleticism (think NFL combine stuff) and baseball athleticism. When a prospect has both types of athleticism at an elite level you get a Ty Cobb, Oscar Charleston, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, Eric Davis, Barry Bonds, or a Mike Trout.

                    In the early 1970's the Kansas City Royals created a baseball academy with the goal of taking athletes with little baseball experience and try to make them into major leaguers. They discovered that some skills like hitting have to be developed at a young age, not in a player's 20's. The best player to come out of the academy was Frank White who ended up with a career 85 OPS+.
                    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-09-2019, 03:23 PM.
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post

                      The White Sox in the last 20 years have drafted an amazing number of great high round "athletes" that the Kenny Williams regime has basically drooled over. Time after time, they were raved about. They constantly have been touted as great athletes who will become excellent players. Almost without fail (in case I missed a single one!), they have been busts. One thing I'll note is that most of the time, these "athletes" were position players.

                      I've seen way too many Jared Mitchells and Courtney Hawkins in the drafts. I prefer baseball players than "athletes".
                      To be fair player development is getting better. Until 5-10 years ago minor league player development was crap. They basically hired some former mlb players to throw some cues they heard in the 70s at players.

                      Now teams hire biomechanics guys that actually understand what is going on and use high speed cameras, hit trax and other tech to teach guys.


                      Still most guys will fail but player development is getting better especially since many now have private hitting and pitching coaches.
                      I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

                        It's the whole "John Kruk vs Bo Jackson" debate. Who was the better actual baseball player? A few years ago fangraphs did a whole series on scouting. And one major point that was made right at the beginning is that there is a difference between traditional athleticism (think NFL combine stuff) and baseball athleticism. When a prospect has both types of athleticism at an elite level you get a Ty Cobb, Oscar Charleston, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, Eric Davis, or a Mike Trout.

                        In the early 1970's the Kansas City Royals created a baseball academy with the goal of taking athletes with little baseball experience and try to make them into major leaguers. They discovered that some skills like hitting have to be developed at a young age, not in a player's 20's. The best player to come out of the academy was Frank White who ended up with a career 85 OPS+.
                        Frank White was a terrific player. He made a bunch of all-star teams and played around 2300 games at second. An 85 ops+ for a guy who plays second for around 15 seasons is good, particularly when he plays good defense.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

                          It's the whole "John Kruk vs Bo Jackson" debate. Who was the better actual baseball player? A few years ago fangraphs did a whole series on scouting. And one major point that was made right at the beginning is that there is a difference between traditional athleticism (think NFL combine stuff) and baseball athleticism. When a prospect has both types of athleticism at an elite level you get a Ty Cobb, Oscar Charleston, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, Eric Davis, or a Mike Trout.

                          In the early 1970's the Kansas City Royals created a baseball academy with the goal of taking athletes with little baseball experience and try to make them into major leaguers. They discovered that some skills like hitting have to be developed at a young age, not in a player's 20's. The best player to come out of the academy was Frank White who ended up with a career 85 OPS+.
                          A non-sarcastic rip on bluesky Charleston reference. I see I'm finally getting through to you...

                          "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dl4060 View Post

                            Frank White was a terrific player. He made a bunch of all-star teams and played around 2300 games at second. An 85 ops+ for a guy who plays second for around 15 seasons is good, particularly when he plays good defense.
                            Sure. White was a really good second baseman. My only point was that White was the best player to come out of the Royals Academy and White as a hitter was mediocre. The Royals Academy was never able to develop an elite hitter.

                            Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                            A non-sarcastic rip on bluesky Charleston reference. I see I'm finally getting through to you...

                            And I didn't even mention Bobby Bonds.
                            Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-08-2019, 06:24 AM.
                            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The hardest thing to develope is the hit tool. Those modern coaches that now get hired left and right are pretty good at developing power and launch angle but the hit tool and especially power is tougher to teach. They are working on it and it seems a few teams are on to something ( Houston for example) but it is still not easy to do.

                              if I was a GM I would draft guys with high contact skills and put them on a batspeed and launch angle program to improve their power. If a guy has contact issues that is tough to fix.
                              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                              Comment

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