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MVP, Cy Young, and Rookie of the Year picks so far in 2019

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  • #16
    Originally posted by willshad View Post

    I know last year's numbers aren't relevant to this year's MVP, but i was just pointing out how good he has suddenly become, and it may not be that huge of a fluke. He has a better chance of keeping up MVP numbers than Bellinger does because he's more proven. Bellinger's hot start is a gigantic fluke.

    I mean, neither guy is going to keep up Ruthian numbers for very long, but I'd bet on Yelich being ahead by the end of the season.
    Definitely. In fact yelich leads MLB in f war 4 June. While bellinger has been regressing.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

      Yelich has extreme home/road splits this season. Like Coors Field extreme.



      Yelich splits.jpg
      Seems like it's just a flukey thing. Last year he hit .328/.399/.545 away from Miller Park.
      My top 10 players:

      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Barry Bonds
      3. Ty Cobb
      4. Ted Williams
      5. Willie Mays
      6. Alex Rodriguez
      7. Hank Aaron
      8. Honus Wagner
      9. Lou Gehrig
      10. Mickey Mantle

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

        Seems like it's just a flukey thing. Last year he hit .328/.399/.545 away from Miller Park.
        That's very strange.
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

          Park Factor:

          Dodger Stadium 105
          Miller Park 104



          Which one is the big league ballpark? You wouldn't happen to be dumping on Yelich since he plays for a division rival, would you?
          Yelcih has EXTREME splits this year and Miller has traditionally been a hitter's park. It was 7th in MLB in 2018 and 8th in 2015, for example. 5th in 2013. Middle of the pack in it's most extreme pitcher-friendly seasons.

          I made an assumption based on his splits and historical trends. I honestly had no idea Miller was playing pitcher-friendly this year and DS was either (26th in MLB last year) and usually a pitcher's park.

          Has NOTHING to do with division rivals or any of that crap. I don't care one way or another about the Brewers emotionally and actually, dislike the Dodgers worse. Don't assume people intentions.
          Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 06-12-2019, 04:14 AM.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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          • #20
            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

            Seems like it's just a flukey thing. Last year he hit .328/.399/.545 away from Miller Park.
            Correct. But the purpose of this thread was to select the MPV so far-not to project who will be in front at the end. I would bet on Yelich winning in the ned if I had to - but that wasn't what we were asked.
            Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 06-12-2019, 04:04 AM.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

              Yelcih has EXTREME splits this year and Miller has traditionally been a hitter's park. It was 7th in MLB in 2018 and 8th in 2015, for example. 5th in 2013. Middle of the pack in it's most extreme pitcher-friendly seasons.

              I made an assumption based on his splits and historical trends. I honestly had no idea Miller was playing pitcher-friendly this year and DS was either (26th in MLB last year) and usually a pitcher's park.

              Has NOTHING to do with division rivals or any of that crap. I don't care one way or another about the Brewers emotionally and actually, dislike the Dodgers worse. Don't assume people intentions.
              I was joking, no offense intended.

              By the way, Yelich hit another road homer last night. His road batting line is up to .273/.378/.512. Not bad at all.

              EDIT - and here are Yelich's 2019 ROAD counting stats per 162 games:

              111 runs scored
              35 doubles
              10 triples
              30 home runs
              81 RBI
              50 SB / 0 CS

              Those are the kinds of numbers, RBI notwithstanding, could win an MVP on their own and nobody would bat an eye. And that's just his road stats; he has been markedly better at home, obviously. Heck, that would be a more impressive offensive year than Ichiro's 2001 or Dustin Pedroia's 2008 or countless other MVP seasons in recent memory.
              Last edited by GiambiJuice; 06-12-2019, 06:52 AM.
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

                I was joking, no offense intended.

                By the way, Yelich hit another road homer last night. His road batting line is up to .273/.378/.512. Not bad at all.
                It looks like Yelich's road stats are normalizing to his true talent level. Yelich continues to lead the NL (25) in HR's and stolen bases (14). I rooting for him to become just the third player in history to lead the league in HR's and stolen bases in the same season.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

                  It looks like Yelich's road stats are normalizing to his true talent level. Yelich continues to lead the NL (25) in HR's and stolen bases (14). I rooting for him to become just the third player in history to lead the league in HR's and stolen bases in the same season.
                  The question is what is his 'normal' talent level? The pretty good player he was from 2013 until the halfway point last season, or the best player in baseball (basically Babe Ruth with speed) that he has been for the past year?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by willshad View Post

                    The question is what is his 'normal' talent level? The pretty good player he was from 2013 until the halfway point last season, or the best player in baseball (basically Babe Ruth with speed) that he has been for the past year?
                    It is kind of unusual for a guy to be a solid player until age 26 then morph into MVP/Hall of Fame type player. Barry Bonds had a similar jump at age 25. Bonds had a 124 OPS+ thorough age 24 then jumps to Hall of Fame caliber at age 25. Yelich had a 121 OPS+ through age 25. Roberto Clemente had a 95 OPS+ through age 25 and a 146 OPS+ from age 26 on.

                    My first though was that Yelich is just having a fluky 2019 season. But over his last 152 games (365 days) Yelich is hitting .340/.430/.703, 403 TB, 53 HR, 136 RBI, 127 R, 35 doubles, 7 triples, 195 H, 29 SB, 84 BB. That's prime Jimmie Foxx type of hitting. At what point will Yelich cease being considered a "fluke"? If Yelich slugs over .700 that would be amazing. Off the top of my head not counting the PED guys or the 1994 strike year guys the last .700 slugging season was Mickey Mantle in 1956?
                    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 06-12-2019, 11:16 AM.
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

                      It is kind of unusual for a guy to be a solid player until age 26 then morph into MVP/Hall of Fame type player. Barry Bonds had a similar jump at age 25. Bonds had a 124 OPS+ thorough age 24 then jumps to Hall of Fame caliber at age 25. Yelich had a 121 OPS+ through age 25. Roberto Clemente had a 95 OPS+ through age 25 and a 146 OPS+ from age 26 on.

                      My first though was that Yelich is just having a fluky 2019 season. But over his last 152 games (365 days) Yelich is hitting .340/.430/.703, 403 TB, 53 HR, 136 RBI, 127 R, 35 doubles, 7 triples, 195 H, 29 SB, 84 BB. That's prime Jimmie Foxx type of hitting. At what point will Yelich cease being considered a "fluke"? If Yelich slugs over .700 that would be amazing. Off the top of my head not counting the PED guys or the 1994 strike year guys the last .700 slugging season was Mickey Mantle in 1956?
                      Kind of pokes a big hole in the theory that it's 'impossible to separate from the average player now compared to the 1930s.'. Obviously it is very possible. If Christian Yelich could hit like Babe Ruth now, couldn't Babe Ruth hit like Babe Ruth?
                      Last edited by willshad; 06-12-2019, 11:15 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by willshad View Post

                        Kind of pokes a big hole in the theory that it's 'impossible to separate from the average player now compared to the 1930s.'. Obviously it is very possible. If Christian Yelich could hit like Babe Ruth now, couldn't Babe Ruth hit like Babe Ruth?
                        Sure, it possible. I go back and forth on this issue. I don't try to compare players from different eras any more. I think it's a fools errand. The conditions of the game have changed greatly over the past 130 years. The baseball materials and manufacturing techniques, bat material, bat size and weight, gloves, field dimensions, baseball strategies/tactics, day vs night games, specializes relief pitching, types of pitches thrown, advances in scouting, baseball coaching and training, weight training, nutrition, etc. Ruth put up his amazing stats under very specific playing conditions. The playing conditions are very different today. Could he have adapted to the modern game? My gut feeling is probably yes. But that is just my opinion. Others disagree.
                        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

                          It is kind of unusual for a guy to be a solid player until age 26 then morph into MVP/Hall of Fame type player. Barry Bonds had a similar jump at age 25. Bonds had a 124 OPS+ thorough age 24 then jumps to Hall of Fame caliber at age 25. Yelich had a 121 OPS+ through age 25. Roberto Clemente had a 95 OPS+ through age 25 and a 146 OPS+ from age 26 on.

                          My first though was that Yelich is just having a fluky 2019 season. But over his last 152 games (365 days) Yelich is hitting .340/.430/.703, 403 TB, 53 HR, 136 RBI, 127 R, 35 doubles, 7 triples, 195 H, 29 SB, 84 BB. That's prime Jimmie Foxx type of hitting. At what point will Yelich cease being considered a "fluke"? If Yelich slugs over .700 that would be amazing. Off the top of my head not counting the PED guys or the 1994 strike year guys the last .700 slugging season was Mickey Mantle in 1956?
                          Most HR from career game #690-851 (reflecting Yelich's last 162 games)

                          65 Albert Belle
                          58 J.D. Martinez
                          56 Juan Gonzalez
                          54 Christian Yelich
                          54 Ken Griffey Jr.
                          54 Jose Bautista
                          My top 10 players:

                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Barry Bonds
                          3. Ty Cobb
                          4. Ted Williams
                          5. Willie Mays
                          6. Alex Rodriguez
                          7. Hank Aaron
                          8. Honus Wagner
                          9. Lou Gehrig
                          10. Mickey Mantle

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                            Sure, it possible. I go back and forth on this issue. I don't try to compare players from different eras any more. I think it's a fools errand. The conditions of the game have changed greatly over the past 130 years. The baseball materials and manufacturing techniques, bat material, bat size and weight, gloves, field dimensions, baseball strategies/tactics, day vs night games, specializes relief pitching, types of pitches thrown, advances in scouting, baseball coaching and training, weight training, nutrition, etc. Ruth put up his amazing stats under very specific playing conditions. The playing conditions are very different today. Could he have adapted to the modern game? My gut feeling is probably yes. But that is just my opinion. Others disagree.
                            The basic skill is the same. See the ball, hit the ball. I find the idea that Christian Yelich or Mookie Betts can be a better hitter than Babe Ruth sort of laughable. There should be no debate whatsoever.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by willshad View Post

                              The basic skill is the same.
                              The skill is the same but playing environment is not the same at all. I find it hard to believe that people don't understand this. We see players today go from pitchers' parks to hitters' parks and their stats change dramatically.

                              See the ball, hit the ball.
                              There's more to hitting than that. Many other outside factors influence's a hitter's stats than just their innate talent and skill.

                              I find the idea that Christian Yelich or Mookie Betts can be a better hitter than Babe Ruth sort of laughable. There should be no debate whatsoever.
                              How do you define "better"? To me asking who is better is meaningless. Who was "better", Sadaharu Oh or Fred McGriff? Would Oh have hit 868 home runs if he played in the major leagues?

                              As there are a wide assortment of factors that have changed over the decades.

                              The baseball materials and manufacturing techniques, bat material, bat size and weight, gloves, field dimensions, baseball strategies/tactics, day vs night games, specializes relief pitching, types of pitches thrown, advances in scouting, baseball coaching and training, weight training, nutrition, etc.

                              Do you believe these factors don't affect a player's statistics at all? All these factors make determining who is better across era completely impossible.
                              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                              Comment

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