Enjoy your retirement Sammy and Good-Bye

[Tigerfan1974]

As Sammy Sosa has chosen to retire, I say good bye and good luck. (He'll need it.)

For being forced into retirement because of an ego too large to accept the Nationals offer and no one else offering because of the suspicion of 'roids dogging you, say hello to Palmeiro at the unemployment line for us.

Sammy was once a shining star that burned up and out.
He gave us some real thrills, like the summer of '98 in chase of Maris with McGwire.

But now in the wake of many variables, I think the professional game may be better off without him and Palmeiro, Bonds and others like them who cheat, in one way or another. (remember Sammy's corked bat!!)

As former MNF commentator Dennis Miller would say, "but that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." (but I don't think I am.)

Am I alone on this one? Let me hear it BF.
(or let me have it, if you wish! This is an open forum, is it not?)

[johnny]

tell 'em

To make sure that when he cleans out his locker to take those corked bats and syringes with him. Wouldn't want an innocent teammate to accidently get poked with 20 cc of roids. :grouchy
Maybe him and Big Mac can spend time reliving the magic 1998 season that saved baseball. Whooops, can't do that cause Big Mac doens't like to talk about the past...he is all about the future. :grouchy :grouchy

Anyone recall Sammy's 'outrage' back in 2002?
Tuesday, July 2
Updated: July 3, 5:05 PM ET

Reilly asked Sosa to take steroid test
ESPN.com news services

CHICAGO -- Chicago Cubs outfielder Sammy Sosa and Sports Illustrated columnist Rick Reilly are in a spat after Reilly wrote down the address of a clinic and asked Sosa to go there and take a steroid test last weekend.

Reilly says he was trying to help Sosa win a public relations battle and didn't mean any harm. Sosa, who has said he would be the first in line for steroid testing should Major League Baseball and the players association agree to it, said he feels like he was set up.

Reilly wrote in this week's magazine that he gave Sosa the address of LabCorp, a clinic about 30 minutes from Wrigley Field, and said: "Why wait to see what the players' association will do?" I continued. "Why not step up right now and be tested? You show everybody you're clean. It'll lift a cloud off you and a cloud off the game. It'll show the fans that all these great numbers you're putting up are real."

After the article came out, Sosa told the Chicago Sun-Times: ''What a friend, huh? With friends like that, I don't need any enemies. Why is he going to ask an individual guy to go out there and take a test? C'mon. It's unprofessional, no question about it.


The article goes on but that is the gist.

[Mattingly]

I'm curious, is this a thread designed to bash Sammy Sosa?

While I've said in another thread that I wouldn't mind too much if Barry Bonds were to retire, I never went out to trash him at all.

Since he's never been found guilty of having used any steroids, and has only been found to have used one corked bat, then a bit more proof may be needed.

In jest, yes, I wouldn't mind some jokes about corks and PEDs, but you folks seem to be saying this as if it's a fact.

[Tigerfan1974]

I'm curious, is this a thread designed to bash Sammy Sosa?

While I've said in another thread that I wouldn't mind too much if Barry Bonds were to retire, I never went out to trash him at all.

Since he's never been found guilty of having used any steroids, and has only been found to have used one corked bat, then a bit more proof may be needed.

In jest, yes, I wouldn't mind some jokes about corks and PEDs, but you folks seem to be saying this as if it's a fact.

Well, to some degree, the rule of juris prudence these days seems to be guilty until proven innocent.

As for 'one corked bat', cheating is cheating. As someone quoted in the other Sammy thread today, 'let those of you without sin cast the first stone'. Sin is sin and cheating is cheating. Sammy cheated.

I do not know whether Sammy used 'roids or not and I don't care. I am like you though I guess in that, I am just saying I am not going to miss him, or Bonds for that matter.

[Mattingly]

Well, to some degree, the rule of juris prudence these days seems to be guilty until proven innocent.

As for 'one corked bat', cheating is cheating. As someone quoted in the other Sammy thread today, 'let those of you without sin cast the first stone'. Sin is sin and cheating is cheating. Sammy cheated.

I do not know whether Sammy used 'roids or not and I don't care. I am like you though I guess in that, I am just saying I am not going to miss him, or Bonds for that matter.

Not only juris prudence, but to me, it's not just a court of law. On BBF, this would be like a court of the common man/woman, so no legal requirements. In that way, it would be a matter of fairness that unless he's found to have used something, then it's best not to act like he's done so, nor to bash him for having done so.

In the case of Palmeiro, he's been found to have used steroids, and in his case, a powerful and highly detectable one at that.

Still, I'm not too enamored about BBF being a place used to trash players.

In 1998, Sammy and McGwire went on offensive tears, and they were on teams which were division rivals also. In addition to both being lauded by the Maris Family, then-NYC Mayor Rudy Guiliani, who's called himself the #1 Yankee fan and has appeared on floats during the various parades, gave Sammy a parade up the same Canyon of Heroes (which is at the foot of Broadway in lower Manhattan).

This is the same Canyon of Heroes that the Yankees, Astronauts who went on maiden voyages to the moon were given. Sammy was given a royal Hero's Welcome, so to speak, then went uptown in Washington Heights (which is just above Harlem) to meet his fellow Dominicans. He was royally roasted there as well by the great number of fans who'd been *GLUED* to the TVs and followed his offensive exploits *RELIGIOUSLY* and on a *DAILY BASIS*, mentioning what he'd done amongst one another.

Regardless of his constant striking out, he still did lots for the game. I think that, even with the *SINGLE* corked bat, he deserves a lot better than to be thrown under a bus. I'm not saying that's what you folks are doing, but he at least deserves some respect.

Even with all the things Barry Bonds has done, he's obviously added a lot to the game also. For that alone, I wouldn't throw him underneath a passing bus either.

Sometimes compassion and what one has done overall should be used, rather than the "what have you done for me lately?" thing people often look upon. Sometimes that attitude can be both short-sighted, as well as forgetful of past accomplishments that were very important.

[johnny]

court of public opinion is all we have

Well, to some degree, the rule of juris prudence these days seems to be guilty until proven innocent.

As for 'one corked bat', cheating is cheating. As someone quoted in the other Sammy thread today, 'let those of you without sin cast the first stone'. Sin is sin and cheating is cheating. Sammy cheated.

I do not know whether Sammy used 'roids or not and I don't care. I am like you though I guess in that, I am just saying I am not going to miss him, or Bonds for that matter.

I agree with you Tigerfan1974.
I would point out that yes, 'guilty til proven innocence' is for the court of law. In terms of the court of public opinion, and given the facts and circumstances surrounding Sammy I would feel fairly certain that more likely than not he cheated.
No one is going to jail here...so if the worst Sammy takes is a little post career bashing then he got away lightly. Very lightly.
But he and 'Big' Mac did one very important thing: they illustrated just how really amazing a roids free Roger Maris was in 1961.
So for that, I am very appreciative.

[west coast orange and black]

it seems to me that this was started as a response to "enjoy your retirement sammy and thanks"

sosa both endeared and captivated america, and also was at times brash.
he has had both fans wishing the best for him and detractors who thought otherwise.

[Cubsfan97]

I dont like bashing Sosa just for all the good times hes given me. There was a time when everyone in the country was watching his every AB. The cork thing really brought him down but I think he was innocent on steroids. I dont see him trying both steroids and a corked bat. Its too risky. And his numbers form the last 2 years prove even if he is on steroids it aint doing anything for him. He really should have left when he was traded.

[Dasperp]

As for 'one corked bat', cheating is cheating. As someone quoted in the other Sammy thread today, 'let those of you without sin cast the first stone'. Sin is sin and cheating is cheating. Sammy cheated

I thought his explanation for that was pretty reasonable. Jay Jaffe had a good entry about Sosa on his blog in which he mentions this: http://www.futilityinfielder.com/blog/blog.shtml

[johnny]

too risky?

I dont like bashing Sosa just for all the good times hes given me. There was a time when everyone in the country was watching his every AB. The cork thing really brought him down but I think he was innocent on steroids. I dont see him trying both steroids and a corked bat. Its too risky. And his numbers form the last 2 years prove even if he is on steroids it aint doing anything for him. He really should have left when he was traded.

You know, I recall Rafi stating under oath that he wasn't a roid user and yet get caught with same not less than 9 months later.
Some ballplayers think they are above the rules-probably cause many of them were protected.
"Sosa will be remembered for blasting 243 homers over a four-year span, an unprecedented barrage that saw him cross the once-unreachable 60-homer threshold three times."
C'mon...being from Seattle I know the difference between rained upon and spit on while told it was rain.

[RBi]

As for 'one corked bat', cheating is cheating. As someone quoted in the other Sammy thread today, 'let those of you without sin cast the first stone'. Sin is sin and cheating is cheating. Sammy cheated.

I will claim that statement.

And using your method, "Sin is Sin"

Never "cheat" on homework in school?
Never "cheat" on your taxes?
Never copy of the person beside you on a test?
Never "cheat" and run a red light, when you know you shouldn't?
Never knowingly pay a cheaper price for something at the store, and not say anything until you get outside?

If your answer is no here, then so be it. I still stand behind what I said before. I think this whole steroid talk is played out. Also, something else to think about... Where were steroids against the rules? I know you said you don't care about that... because he used Cork... but let's hop back to steroids..

At what point were using steroids against the MLB rules?

[burger eater]

They were/are against the law in the USA. The players are employed by companies/organizations within the USA.
Not making a complete stop at a 4-way is quite a difference from taking an illegal substance that is harmful to your health when abused.

[johnny]

I will claim that statement.

And using your method, "Sin is Sin"

Never "cheat" on homework in school?
Never "cheat" on your taxes?
Never copy of the person beside you on a test?
Never "cheat" and run a red light, when you know you shouldn't?
Never knowingly pay a cheaper price for something at the store, and not say anything until you get outside?

If your answer is no here, then so be it. I still stand behind what I said before. I think this whole steroid talk is played out. Also, something else to think about... Where were steroids against the rules? I know you said you don't care about that... because he used Cork... but let's hop back to steroids..

Hey
Just pointing out that no one is asking for Hall of Fame induction for their home work prowess; stellar work on schedule A of your 1040 Long Form; that calc test your senior year; safe driving skills; or honesty at the register.

Roids changed baseball. Not for the good, either.

[Dontworry]

They were/are against the law in the USA. The players are employed by companies/organizations within the USA.
Not making a complete stop at a 4-way is quite a difference from taking an illegal substance that is harmful to your health when abused.

So I would assume that you would consider tim raines a cheater ?

Or chad curtis ?

They both used illegal drugs that are banned in america.

[Dontworry]

Hey
Just pointing out that no one is asking for Hall of Fame induction for their home work prowess; stellar work on schedule A of your 1040 Long Form; that calc test your senior year; safe driving skills; or honesty at the register.

Roids changed baseball. Not for the good, either.

" Just pointing out that no one is asking for Hall of Fame induction "

Just to point something out, there's already " cheaters " in the HOF.