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  • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

    Yeah, I was just gonna say. I thought he was being sincere at first, now I believe he has to be trolling.
    It's kind of hard to tell sometimes; there are people like him that genuinely believe what he was spouting.
    46 wins to match last year's total

    Comment


    • Let's be honest, Ryu has only himself to blame for not picking up the award. He was on track to win it easily but he fizzled down the stretch. Ryu had a 4.60 ERA in August and September. deGrom's ERA over the final three months of the season was 1.51.

      If Ryu would have maintained his significant ERA advantage he would have won it, but deGrom nearly caught him in ERA and pitched 21 more innings than Ryu to effectively close the gap entirely.

      My top 10 players:

      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Barry Bonds
      3. Ty Cobb
      4. Ted Williams
      5. Willie Mays
      6. Alex Rodriguez
      7. Hank Aaron
      8. Honus Wagner
      9. Lou Gehrig
      10. Mickey Mantle

      Comment


      • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

        Yeah, I was just gonna say. I thought he was being sincere at first, now I believe he has to be trolling.
        He joins about 4-5 other regular posters who say this kind of stuff all the time. Why do you think he is trolling?
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

          He joins about 4-5 other regular posters who say this kind of stuff all the time. Why do you think he is trolling?
          Maybe he's not trolling, I dont know. It's hard to believe that some of these statements (e.g. that looking at the back of a baseball card is the most effective way to determine who the best pitcher was) are not being said ironically.
          My top 10 players:

          1. Babe Ruth
          2. Barry Bonds
          3. Ty Cobb
          4. Ted Williams
          5. Willie Mays
          6. Alex Rodriguez
          7. Hank Aaron
          8. Honus Wagner
          9. Lou Gehrig
          10. Mickey Mantle

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

            Maybe he's not trolling, I dont know. It's hard to believe that some of these statements (e.g. that looking at the back of a baseball card is the most effective way to determine who the best pitcher was) are not being said ironically.
            Honestly, GJ, I didn't even think of the trolling slant until you mentioned it. I see no reason to toss that word around so loosely.
            Put it in the books.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

              Honestly, GJ, I didn't even think of the trolling slant until you mentioned it. I see no reason to toss that word around so loosely.
              The thread has been going for three months now. I think it's safe enough to speculate it a little.
              46 wins to match last year's total

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post

                The thread has been going for three months now. I think it's safe enough to speculate it a little.
                A person is entitled to his opinions without being labelled something or accused of having an ulterior motive. I may disagree with him (vehemently), but he has yet to seem less than genuine to me.
                Put it in the books.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                  A person is entitled to his opinions without being labelled something or accused of having an ulterior motive. I may disagree with him (vehemently), but he has yet to seem less than genuine to me.
                  It's fine. I don't REALLY think he's a troll either; I was just agreeing that it's possible. I don't agree with him either; you can't just look at simple stats to determine the effectiveness of a player. You have to look deeper into them.
                  46 wins to match last year's total

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox

                    But that Nobel Peace Prize might till be in reach.
                    Might need to hit the brakes on this one.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post

                      It's fine. I don't REALLY think he's a troll either; I was just agreeing that it's possible. I don't agree with him either; you can't just look at simple stats to determine the effectiveness of a player. You have to look deeper into them.
                      Nope not a troll just someone who thinks awards are just becoming more useless then ever before, it never was the end all be all of looking at how great a player was or is but it used to hold some esteem with it. I mean Ruth only won one MVP in his career(back when u couldn't win multiple), but lately it seems to be more used as an agenda by some of the writers. It's been argued that you can't look at simple stats to determine how great a player is but almost everyone was using era which is a stat to say that despite degrom only winning 10 games his era was so much better then everyone else that he was the best pitcher and thus he was justified in receiving 29 first place votes . Point taken. Yet this year another player had a better era(the one stat everyone seems to agree is based on the pitchers greatness and not the team) and more wins(yes an archaic stat according to people on this site and apparently to the writers too) and he led his team to the playoffs. Yet this player got 1 first place vote and the player with the second best era in the league and had 3 less wins then the above player and his team finished out of the playoffs received 29 first place votes. I have yet to see anyone come up with a good reason for this without using hypothetical stats and a stat that is computed differently on different sites(WAR). I respect everyone's opinion and their arguments, I like that there's a site where people can present their arguments about the best sport out there. Baseball more then any other sport lends itself to argue who was the best. I'm not going to change my opinion on this subject but love hearing other people's arguments against my view.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by A'sman View Post

                        Nope not a troll just someone who thinks awards are just becoming more useless then ever before, it never was the end all be all of looking at how great a player was or is but it used to hold some esteem with it. I mean Ruth only won one MVP in his career(back when u couldn't win multiple), but lately it seems to be more used as an agenda by some of the writers. It's been argued that you can't look at simple stats to determine how great a player is but almost everyone was using era which is a stat to say that despite degrom only winning 10 games his era was so much better then everyone else that he was the best pitcher and thus he was justified in receiving 29 first place votes . Point taken. Yet this year another player had a better era(the one stat everyone seems to agree is based on the pitchers greatness and not the team) and more wins(yes an archaic stat according to people on this site and apparently to the writers too) and he led his team to the playoffs. Yet this player got 1 first place vote and the player with the second best era in the league and had 3 less wins then the above player and his team finished out of the playoffs received 29 first place votes. I have yet to see anyone come up with a good reason for this without using hypothetical stats and a stat that is computed differently on different sites(WAR). I respect everyone's opinion and their arguments, I like that there's a site where people can present their arguments about the best sport out there. Baseball more then any other sport lends itself to argue who was the best. I'm not going to change my opinion on this subject but love hearing other people's arguments against my view.
                        Unfortunately, WAR is becoming the only stat that matters, even among the voters. Which, for pitchers is even more unfortunate, because WAR has been shown time and again to give downright ridiculous results for them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by willshad View Post

                          Unfortunately, WAR is becoming the only stat that matters, even among the voters. Which, for pitchers is even more unfortunate, because WAR has been shown time and again to give downright ridiculous results for them.
                          It's even becoming the only stat that matters in hall of fame voting as well which is ridiculous I think.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by willshad View Post

                            Unfortunately, WAR is becoming the only stat that matters, even among the voters. Which, for pitchers is even more unfortunate, because WAR has been shown time and again to give downright ridiculous results for them.
                            Not true.

                            Aaron Nola led the Major Leagues in WAR just over a year ago. He finished third in the NL Cy Young voting and didn't receive a single first place vote. Obviously the voters were weighing other stats more heavily than WAR.

                            It's true that nowadays the WAR leader will usually win the Cy Young. That is not, as you would have us believe, because "WAR is the only stat that matters". It's because the pitcher who pitched the best will usually end up with the most WAR, as a byproduct of, ya know, pitching the best.

                            Speaking of 2018, Blake Snell won the CY in the American Leauge, and yes, he was also the WAR leader. Did he win the award because voters looked at his WAR or do you think maybe going 21-5 with a 1.89 ERA had something to do with it?
                            My top 10 players:

                            1. Babe Ruth
                            2. Barry Bonds
                            3. Ty Cobb
                            4. Ted Williams
                            5. Willie Mays
                            6. Alex Rodriguez
                            7. Hank Aaron
                            8. Honus Wagner
                            9. Lou Gehrig
                            10. Mickey Mantle

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by A'sman View Post

                              It's even becoming the only stat that matters in hall of fame voting as well which is ridiculous I think.
                              Not true.

                              Mariano Rivera just became the first ever unanimous HOF electee. He only had 50-something WAR. Many pitchers with more WAR than Rivera (Cole Hamels comes to mind) will have a very hard time getting in. Let's see how Mark Buehrle with his 59 WAR (3 more than Rivera) does in the voting. Hint: he ain't ever getting into Cooperstown without a ticket.

                              So again, clearly WAR is not becoming the only stat that matters in Hall of Fame voting. Enough with the hyperbole.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

                                Not true.

                                Mariano Rivera just became the first ever unanimous HOF electee. He only had 50-something WAR. Many pitchers with more WAR than Rivera (Cole Hamels comes to mind) will have a very hard time getting in. Let's see how Mark Buehrle with his 59 WAR (3 more than Rivera) does in the voting. Hint: he ain't ever getting into Cooperstown without a ticket.

                                So again, clearly WAR is not becoming the only stat that matters in Hall of Fame voting. Enough with the hyperbole.
                                Who has the highest WAR among relief pitchers? Oh yeah it's Rivera , oh I'm sorry eckersely had more but he was also a starter for over half his career . So your point is what?

                                Comment

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