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The super Astros fall from grace

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  • Stolensingle
    replied
    Cora: I'm to blame, but so is everyone else:

    I deserve my suspension and I'm paying the price for my actions,” Cora says. “And I am not proud of what happened. We made a mistake as a group, the entire [Astros] team. What happened was something that, if you ask anyone involved, no one is proud of it. We're all at fault. Everybody. We're all responsible. Everyone who was part of the team from around mid-May until the end of the season, we are all responsible."

    "If there is one thing I am absolutely sure of, it is that it was not a two-man show. We all did it. And let me be very clear that I am not denying my responsibility, because we were all responsible."

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

    It will be an issue whenever baseball starts but not nearly to the degree if all things were normal in 2020 and OD was March 26th. This took some heat off of the Astros. Not all of it but some for sure.
    Agreed. If there are no fans at games (if there are any games at all), the only consequences they'll suffer are from their opponents.

    Leave a comment:


  • dominik
    replied
    Mlb decided red sox did cheat but not at the same level the Astros did.

    Only lose a second rounder and Cora is banned for 2020 but not for his role with red sox but his role with the Astros.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by UnderPressure View Post



    No one will forget once everything is back to business.
    It will be an issue whenever baseball starts but not nearly to the degree if all things were normal in 2020 and OD was March 26th. This took some heat off of the Astros. Not all of it but some for sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • UnderPressure
    replied
    Originally posted by dominik View Post
    Astros are a winner of this, now nobody cares about the astros.

    regarding luhnow I can't see a team touching him at least the next 3-4 years. He is very talented obviously but comes with so much baggage for public relations.


    No one will forget once everything is back to business.

    Leave a comment:


  • dominik
    replied
    Astros are a winner of this, now nobody cares about the astros.

    regarding luhnow I can't see a team touching him at least the next 3-4 years. He is very talented obviously but comes with so much baggage for public relations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stolensingle
    replied
    In case anyone cares: MLB has determined that if the entire season is cancelled, Hinch and Luhnow will have served their suspensions, and will be allowed to work in the game in 2021.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    Originally posted by milladrive View Post
    https://sports.yahoo.com/former-astr...181333994.html[INDENT]
    Gattis tweets picture of ‘Snitches Get Stitches’ Mike Fiers glass

    Nick Stellini
    NBC Sports
    March 28, 2020, 11:13 am

    Houston team that won the World Series in 2017, clearly feels a certain kind of way about his former teammate. It’s one thing for a private business to make this sort of merchandise, but it’s another thing entirely for a player to endorse it. The implication, of course, is that Gattis feels that Fiers is owed some sort of retribution for his actions. That’ll be rather hard to do without some sort of full-out brawl happening, given that both the Astros and A’s (Fiers’ current team) play in the American League and the pitchers don’t bat.
    What a preposterous overreaction. It's just a stupid turn of phrase. The Astros don't deserve anyone's pity or protection.

    Leave a comment:


  • milladrive
    replied
    https://sports.yahoo.com/former-astr...181333994.html

    Gattis tweets picture of ‘Snitches Get Stitches’ Mike Fiers glass

    Nick Stellini
    NBC Sports
    March 28, 2020, 11:13 am

    Just in case the ongoing coronavirus pandemic has made you forget about the biggest pre-virus story in baseball, former Astros catcher Evan Gattis has stepped up to the plate to remind you why you were probably very mad at the Houston Astros. Gattis tweeted an image of a glass being sold by a Houston-area bar depicting Mike Fiers with the phrase “snitches get stitches.” Fiers, of course, was the one who blew the whistle on the Astros’ sign-stealing operation.

    Houston team that won the World Series in 2017, clearly feels a certain kind of way about his former teammate. It’s one thing for a private business to make this sort of merchandise, but it’s another thing entirely for a player to endorse it. The implication, of course, is that Gattis feels that Fiers is owed some sort of retribution for his actions. That’ll be rather hard to do without some sort of full-out brawl happening, given that both the Astros and A’s (Fiers’ current team) play in the American League and the pitchers don’t bat.

    Gattis has not appeared in organized ball since 2018, when he posted a -0.1 fWAR.

    Leave a comment:


  • abolishthedh
    replied
    Originally posted by UnderPressure View Post

    This is hilarious coming from someone who named himself abolishthedh
    And, it is hilarious you think so. All that moniker is intended to convey is a traditionalist stance on baseball. Again, this is not a defense of the Astros, nor any one team, but of baseball in the big picture. A traditionalist recognizes the game he has followed.

    It is amusing, though, to clarify. Baseball is a cat and mouse game. The design of the game and the 'rules' which have been followed or ignored, either way, amount to a game which reflects the human pursuit of gaining a step up on someone else. That human 'game' is all around you: hackers attempting to circumvent security to get into bank records and corporate accounts, corrupt Wall Street suits attempting to circumvent the SEC and other laws on Wall Street, kids attempting to hack into their teachers gradebooks, the average guy in a bar attempting to get into a woman's jeans.

    All baseball has ever amounted to is a sport which reflects peoples' nature anyway. It has never been intended to be pure, and its impurities are the very fun of it since we can't fix the human race. Traditionalists in baseball understand there is nothing in the game to fix. We welcome the imperfections. Bill James himself has been on record for that. See an article he wrote for Lindy's Baseball Preview magazine for last year, 2019 on the very back page. I have a copy at home and could post that page if you wish to see it.

    https://store.lindyssports.com/produ...seball-preview

    Now, please don't take all that personally. We who are traditionalists are used to misunderstandings like this. It goes with the territory.

    And so, you are taking it upon yourself to fix it all. Good luck, and have fun storming the castle.

    Leave a comment:


  • UnderPressure
    replied
    Originally posted by abolishthedh View Post

    Have fun stormin' the castle, UnderPressure. Changing human nature never works. Did it work with Prohibition, with changes to laws over drug use? Do we get annoyed with government involvement in our lives? Why would we attempt to perfect baseball?

    Baseball is a game where the action is away from the ball. That action involves attempts to gain advantages on the opposition. That is the very essence of the game, the bending of rules. This action away from the ball which always amounts to cat and mouse attempts to circumvent rules is what makes the game interesting. That is why I watch, and why the game was once the national pastime. Baseball has always been my spies in the sky versus yours, my shenanigans against yours, my laundry's antics versus yours. May your team get those shenanigans together in the new season.

    What game did you think you were watching? The PGA? That is the only sport I'm aware of which is pure. Every other game is best when they let the boys play. Fewer flags in football will generally result if fewer complaints from fans. Fewer fouls in the NBA will lead to the same. Fewer rules in baseball might ensure that someday we might once again see it as the national pastime.

    However, if we create new rules in the misguided attempt at purity, well, have fun storming that castle. That was Billy Crystal's advice in one of his movies.

    In the meantime, as you reconsider perfection, stick with ice cream. I'm a mint chocolate chip man myself, but Haagen-Dazs Rum Raisin will make you look for a thesaurus to find a better word for perfection.
    This is hilarious coming from someone who named himself abolishthedh

    BTW, you make no sense

    Leave a comment:


  • Los Bravos
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    You compare that to what the Astros did and used. Your serious?
    People have been using those things to Whatabout/minimize/excuse PEDs for a long time, now.

    Leave a comment:


  • abolishthedh
    replied
    Originally posted by UnderPressure View Post

    The point is the Dodgers and Yankees have every right to roast the Astros. Sick of hearing it? Well too damn bad. It won't end any time soon. Rightfully so.
    Have fun stormin' the castle, UnderPressure. Changing human nature never works. Did it work with Prohibition, with changes to laws over drug use? Do we get annoyed with government involvement in our lives? Why would we attempt to perfect baseball?

    Baseball is a game where the action is away from the ball. That action involves attempts to gain advantages on the opposition. That is the very essence of the game, the bending of rules. This action away from the ball which always amounts to cat and mouse attempts to circumvent rules is what makes the game interesting. That is why I watch, and why the game was once the national pastime. Baseball has always been my spies in the sky versus yours, my shenanigans against yours, my laundry's antics versus yours. May your team get those shenanigans together in the new season.

    What game did you think you were watching? The PGA? That is the only sport I'm aware of which is pure. Every other game is best when they let the boys play. Fewer flags in football will generally result if fewer complaints from fans. Fewer fouls in the NBA will lead to the same. Fewer rules in baseball might ensure that someday we might once again see it as the national pastime.

    However, if we create new rules in the misguided attempt at purity, well, have fun storming that castle. That was Billy Crystal's advice in one of his movies.

    In the meantime, as you reconsider perfection, stick with ice cream. I'm a mint chocolate chip man myself, but Haagen-Dazs Rum Raisin will make you look for a thesaurus to find a better word for perfection.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by rodk View Post
    The Purists on the board seem to be of the absolutist mindset. I haven't seen anything along the lines of moral relativism.

    I was at the Pine Tar Game. Brett was cheating; no doubt about it. It was probably a matter of negligence rather than intent, but cheating none the less. Eventually, the ruling on the field was vacated because the letter of the law defied the spirit of the rules. There's a lot of hair splitting in that, but overall IMHO, the right result

    I've posted frequently in the "Ask the Umpire" thread and having read a lot of the MLB rules, it turns out that any number of the written rules aren't written in conformity with the interpretation of them. Is it really cheating to test the meaning of a rule? Or to go to the edge of the envelope with one? Or is it also cheating to press your luck trying to enforce a rule as written when it has never really meant that?

    A for instance. As I understand it, the rule that was applied to the Astros essentially says that teams can't use "technology" to steal signs. It was written that way to continue to allow runners at second or teammates in the dugout to keep doing what they have been doing, but not to allow someone in the stands with a telescope (a technology from the 1600's) and a button relay the signals into the offensive dugout. But no where is the word "technology" really defined. We think it means only electronics and telescopes, but there's a lot of tech in the game that doesn't really involve that. What about guys with contacts or glasses that give them better than 20/20 vision? What about guys who have had Lasik surgery? Maybe some day someone will get a night vision cornea. Are these players in a separate category, and cheating when they try to read the opposing signs?

    Rules are tough. They don't necessarily mean what they say, and in rare cases mean exactly the opposite. The adjudication of guilt and sanctions has to recognize that reality rather than serve absolutists operating with zero tolerance policies.

    Me? I think the Astros WS win is tainted, but I also think the Dodgers and Yankees can't complain. They did not exercise proper security protocols to keep their signals secret even after they suspected they were victims. These are billion dollar companies, and if they can't keep their proprietary information secret, they can hardly bitch about someone else getting it.

    You compare that to what the Astros did and used. Your serious?

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by rodk View Post
    The Purists on the board seem to be of the absolutist mindset. I haven't seen anything along the lines of moral relativism.

    I was at the Pine Tar Game. Brett was cheating; no doubt about it. It was probably a matter of negligence rather than intent, but cheating none the less. Eventually, the ruling on the field was vacated because the letter of the law defied the spirit of the rules. There's a lot of hair splitting in that, but overall IMHO, the right result

    I've posted frequently in the "Ask the Umpire" thread and having read a lot of the MLB rules, it turns out that any number of the written rules aren't written in conformity with the interpretation of them. Is it really cheating to test the meaning of a rule? Or to go to the edge of the envelope with one? Or is it also cheating to press your luck trying to enforce a rule as written when it has never really meant that?

    A for instance. As I understand it, the rule that was applied to the Astros essentially says that teams can't use "technology" to steal signs. It was written that way to continue to allow runners at second or teammates in the dugout to keep doing what they have been doing, but not to allow someone in the stands with a telescope (a technology from the 1600's) and a button relay the signals into the offensive dugout. But no where is the word "technology" really defined. We think it means only electronics and telescopes, but there's a lot of tech in the game that doesn't really involve that. What about guys with contacts or glasses that give them better than 20/20 vision? What about guys who have had Lasik surgery? Maybe some day someone will get a night vision cornea. Are these players in a separate category, and cheating when they try to read the opposing signs?

    Rules are tough. They don't necessarily mean what they say, and in rare cases mean exactly the opposite. The adjudication of guilt and sanctions has to recognize that reality rather than serve absolutists operating with zero tolerance policies.

    Me? I think the Astros WS win is tainted, but I also think the Dodgers and Yankees can't complain. They did not exercise proper security protocols to keep their signals secret even after they suspected they were victims. These are billion dollar companies, and if they can't keep their proprietary information secret, they can hardly bitch about someone else getting it.
    Do you know that for a fact. Also using the system the Astros used, wouldn't be difficult to keep pace with the other teams changes.

    Leave a comment:

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