Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Justin Verlander and Gerrit Cole accused of using illegal substance on ball

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Relevant:

    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

      I thought for sure Phil Niekro had controversy too. If not...1. it doesn't change the truth of anything else I said
      Okay. If you take another look, you can clearly see that I wrote "I'll concede most of the rest of your list" right there in the part you quoted.

      and #2. I am very glad to see people are actually interested in evidence before making accusations or affecting how it impacts their perceptions.
      That's a delightful little piece of passive aggression.

      Plus - I thought it was Mark Beuhrle and George Frazier who also implicated Maddux.

      White Sox pitcher Mark Buehrle caused a stir last week when he accused a Cubs pitcher of doctoring the baseball, intimating that it might be future Hall of Famer Greg Maddux.

      Maddux, who pitched six innings Monday night against the Brewers, has since denied using any foreign substance on the ball during a game.

      "Whether Maddux uses a spitter or not, he is going into the Hall of Fame," said Frazier, who was on the Cubs in 1984-86.

      Frazier believes even the hint that Maddux may be doctoring the ball could be helpful to him as far as getting inside the head of hitters.

      "The hitters will think that every pitch he throws is a spitter," he said.


      Nevermind - it was Leo Mazzone on Hardball Times:

      Leo Mazzone: "Well, I don't see anything wrong with [the New York Giants faking injuries] myself. I watch football a lot, too, and I know that's been going on for a while to slow a team down, it stops their momentum. In baseball, as you well know, it's been going on a long time. I know that in my little ball bag I had firm grip and all kinds of goodies to take care of a baseball to get a little more movement on it. (laughs)"

      Evan Cohen: "So that's why the Braves kicked the Mets ass for all these years?"

      Steve Phillips: "Wait a minute! How come our pitchers were pitching with nice bright white shiny baseballs and your guys had pine tar and scuffs all over them?"

      Mazzone: "Well, you had pine tar, that's for sure, because when you were in the postseason and it got called, one time Smoltzy had it on his shoes and I said, ‘John, you can't keep bending over and touching your shoes all the time. Let's put it someplace else!' (laughs)"
      That is a lot of muddled gibberish. Faulkner would've been proud.

      Why would it hurt you so much if you found out Maddux DID doctor balls? You have made it clear many times that you don't think it is a big deal and that it is not a big deal for Aaron and Schmidt to use greenies and a billion times less "bad" than PEDs? Sure - that is a reasonable stance. So why be so defensive about it when people accuse others of doctoring balls?
      How many mischaracterizations can we count here? Let's see...I couldn't care less about Mike Schmidt's greenie use, in any way shape or form. Yes, I feel the use of those things is dramatically less serious than the use of anabolic steroids or HGH. My objections about Aaron are with the people who claim, as you apparently just did, that there is any proof that he was a regular user of them. The record indicates precisely the reverse and I will point that out here every time someone lazily makes the original assertion.

      The reason I objected to you roping Phil Niekro in with the people you mentioned is that, as far as I know (aside from the one guy I mentioned before who I think conflated the two brothers) no one ever accused him of doing anything to the ball. Personally, I like to try to be as accurate as possible in these kinds of matters.

      As for Maddux, that had a lot more to do with Ubiquitous and his empty claims (and habitual intellectual dishonesty) than anything else. It's entirely possible that Maddux used pine tar in some manner. Lots of pitchers do, usually in a way that's more about promoting a good grip than it is about finding Fowlerian ways to alter the ball's flight. If someone can prove that, we'll take it from there but resorting to a lot of "Everybody knows..." BS isn't going to pass muster with me. Sorry.
      3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
        Okay. If you take another look, you can clearly see that I wrote "I'll concede most of the rest of your list" right there in the part you quoted.

        That's a delightful little piece of passive aggression.



        That is a lot of muddled gibberish. Faulkner would've been proud.



        How many mischaracterizations can we count here? Let's see...I couldn't care less about Mike Schmidt's greenie use, in any way shape or form. Yes, I feel the use of those things is dramatically less serious than the use of anabolic steroids or HGH. My objections about Aaron are with the people who claim, as you apparently just did, that there is any proof that he was a regular user of them. The record indicates precisely the reverse and I will point that out here every time someone lazily makes the original assertion.

        The reason I objected to you roping Phil Niekro in with the people you mentioned is that, as far as I know (aside from the one guy I mentioned before who I think conflated the two brothers) no one ever accused him of doing anything to the ball. Personally, I like to try to be as accurate as possible in these kinds of matters.

        As for Maddux, that had a lot more to do with Ubiquitous and his empty claims (and habitual intellectual dishonesty) than anything else. It's entirely possible that Maddux used pine tar in some manner. Lots of pitchers do, usually in a way that's more about promoting a good grip than it is about finding Fowlerian ways to alter the ball's flight. If someone can prove that, we'll take it from there but resorting to a lot of "Everybody knows..." BS isn't going to pass muster with me. Sorry.
        I wouldn't call Leo Mazone all but admitting the 90's Braves as ball doctorers as muddled gibberish. I mean we are talking ex staff mates, personal catchers, and decades long pitching coaches. This isn't Skip Bayless or Mad Dog.

        I just find it weird the singling out of ubi (who rarely is around and know will likely never see this). Nobody here claimed specific proof of Maddux before your comment. I mentioned that he, along with Rivera had somewhat credible controversies. Getting digs in at ubi for getting digs in sake? Why would this even be mentioned, then?

        I am glad you enjoyed the splash of passive agressiveness. I have noticed you are quite skilled yourself.
        ​​​​
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
          I just find it weird the singling out of ubi (who rarely is around and know will likely never see this). Nobody here claimed specific proof of Maddux before your comment. I mentioned that he, along with Rivera had somewhat credible controversies. Getting digs in at ubi for getting digs in sake? Why would this even be mentioned, then?
          You brought Niekro up out of the blue and tarred him with something that no one else ever has, other than the one guy I mentioned (which, again, I think was him conflating Phil with his brother.) It reminded me of the way Ubiquitous used to throw accusations around with little to no proof. Simple as that.

          3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post

            You brought Niekro up out of the blue and tarred him with something that no one else ever has, other than the one guy I mentioned (which, again, I think was him conflating Phil with his brother.) It reminded me of the way Ubiquitous used to throw accusations around with little to no proof. Simple as that.
            Yeah - I said Phil but was thinking about Joe. Oopsie doopsie.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

              Yeah - I said Phil but was thinking about Joe. Oopsie doopsie.
              Joe may have been busted, but I'd still take him in '82.
              “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

              "How the #### are you supposed to hit that ####?" Mickey Mantle after striking out against Sandy Koufax in the 1963 World Series.

              Comment

              Ad Widget

              Collapse
              Working...
              X