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The Lockout of 2021-2022

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  • #31
    I see "Angel Hernandez" trending... this is the top post:

    https://twitter.com/MyBookie/status/1473004176946999301
    They don’t think it be like it is, but it do.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post
      I see "Angel Hernandez" trending... this is the top post:

      https://twitter.com/MyBookie/status/1473004176946999301
      Lol ... Check out the news when nothing's going on.
      Put it in the books.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
        Frankly, the lack of news is murdering the offseason. There's no reason to go to MLB.com or tune into MLB Network. I don't care about the umpteenth airing of For Love of the Game.

        Good time for some cards and dice baseball, on the other hand. Just ordered the 1985 season and (separately) a dice tower with a (silent) felt base so I can play some games in the living room while my wife is trying to watch her Christmas movies. Baseball doesn't have to be the 2022 season and the lack thereof will only hurt the industry, not this guy.
        We're on the same page. I just wish I could feel the same way about any potential cancelations, at least for now. My mother has just so many seasons left in her, and she looks forward to every Mets game. I mean, I do too, but my life expectancy hasn't been reached yet, and caring for her is so much easier when there's a Met game on. I'd just as soon have them figure this out yesterday, if not sooner.
        Put it in the books.

        Comment


        • #34
          As I expected, it seems no one has any intention of negotiating until the pressure's on. I am fully convinced that the 2022 season will not get underway on time.

          Reportedly No Negotiating Sessions Scheduled for This Week, as MLB Lockout Heads Into Second Month

          https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/...-second-month/
          Put it in the books.

          Comment


          • #35
            This is little more optimistic:

            MLB lockout: Four things to know as talks between owners and players get serious in January

            https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...ous-in-january
            Put it in the books.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by milladrive View Post
              As I expected, it seems no one has any intention of negotiating until the pressure's on. I am fully convinced that the 2022 season will not get underway on time
              Today is the 33rd day of the lockout which now makes this (already) the third-longest work stoppage, and longest-lasting lockout, in MLB history. And the two sides haven't met once yet to discuss the impasse.

              STOP PLAYING CHICKEN WITH MY SPORT!!!
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • #37
                Hope?

                https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/...o-so-soon-ish/
                Put it in the books.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I wonder if anyone who matters actually reads things like this:

                  https://nypost.com/2022/01/08/how-ow...d-mlb-lockout/
                  Put it in the books.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Addressing the proposal point-by-point...

                    1. Enact a payroll floor.
                    I'm not against the idea of having some mechanism whereby owners are required to invest in their team, I am against a set payroll threshold as major league payroll is not always the best use of funds for investment purposes. In other words, why should a last place team invest a marginal, say, $8 million in a first baseman that won't help them win more, when that $8 million is better invested elsewhere? That only serves to artificially inflate the pay of that first baseman and, consequently, others down the road by creating inflationary pressure on all salaries.

                    2. Continue the luxury tax.
                    This is going to happen regardless and, so far as the MLBPA is concerned, they would want this raised (if not abolished) ideally. In practice, the luxury tax has acted as a de facto salary cap which isn't so much good for competitive balance as it is good for the owners lining their pockets.

                    3. Hold revenue sharing recipients responsible for funds received.
                    This is a non-starter for the owners, but it shouldn't be. Hell, all local broadcast revenue should be divided 50%, but the owners getting their act together and making it harder for bad apples among them to operate with impunity would be a welcome start.

                    4. Increase the minimum wage.
                    I think this will happen regardless, though not to the $1.2 million first year minimum suggested in the article.

                    5. Complicated arbitration pool to replace current arbitration system.
                    This is a total non-starter and unserious as it would be acceptable to or desirable of neither side. The owners can stop service time manipulation and the players could give up their demand for earlier arbitration. If I were the owners, I'd agree to an additional year of arbitration in exchange for permitting arbitrators to select a compromise figure of their choice in hearings. This would add to the number of arbitration-eligible players each year, but would lower the average arbitration award by a not insignificant margin.

                    6. Weighted amateur draft lottery.
                    This is a good idea, but more importantly, there should be no cap on signing bonuses and draft picks should be tradeable commodities.

                    7. Expanded playoffs (from 10 to 14 teams).
                    I'm not averse to expanding the playoffs, but 14 out of 30 teams is an awful lot. MLB needs to design a playoff system that rewards teams with the best records and expands the number of games per series before adding additional teams to the playoffs.

                    8. Universal DH.
                    Long time coming.

                    9. Eliminate draft pick compensation related to free agency.
                    Also a long time coming. Better choices related to free agent market without this silly Qualifying Offer business.

                    10. Continue 7-innning double headers in 2022.
                    Please, God, no. This isn't part of the negotiations, nor should it be.

                    11. Implement 15-second pitch clock.
                    Another good idea and, yes, if the owners are going to budge on economic matters, they darned well ought to squeeze these sorts of things out of the PA in return. It'll make for a better product on the field.
                    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      From Evan Drellich this afternoon on The Athletic:
                      The good news Thursday afternoon was that Major League Baseball and the Players Association talked core economics for the first time in 43 days....The bad news is that the players were discouraged by the proposal MLB made, a proposal that avoided some core subjects where the players are hoping to make gains, and in other areas that included changes the players felt were insignificant.

                      No follow-up bargaining session was immediately scheduled as of Thursday afternoon...
                      That about sums it up.
                      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        It’s becoming increasingly obvious that the owners are betting that they can hold firm on the status quo more or less, anticipating that the union will drop its bigger demands (earlier arbitration and free agency) rather than being held responsible by the public for games being cancelled. (Nevermind the inherent assumptions necessary to hold such a position.)

                        MLB has already agreed to:
                        • An NBA-style draft lottery (to address so-called tanking concerns);
                        • A universal DH (giving 15 more jobs to aged, veteran sluggers);
                        • An increase in the minimum wage;
                        • An increase in the luxury tax threshold (i.e. the soft cap on payrolls); and
                        • The long-awaited elimination of compensation attached to free agent signings.
                        Their latest proposal included something in the way of penalizing teams (through the loss of draft picks, I believe) for playing time manipulation like the Kris Bryant incident.

                        Taken together, these are all positive steps in the right direction for the Players Association (and baseball). If the PA takes a “best we can get” from the owners now, they could fight the free agency/arbitration battle another day, at a time when that might be a more palatable hill to die on.

                        Frankly, I think most fans would be very pleased with a 2022 season that starts on time where we effectively see just these changes to MLB’s economic structure.

                        On the other hand, it’s the owners who have initiated the lockout, the owners who are refusing to even address the other sides’ primary concerns, etc. That kind of intransigence could play very poorly with the public if games start being delayed or cancelled.

                        After two years of all COVID and other high-stress events in this country, there is a very strong sentiment for things to get back to normalcy, making this an extremely inopportune time for the sport to give itself a black eye with John Q. Public.

                        Get your act together, boys, and let’s play some baseball. We all want to find out where Carlos Correa signs and where Matt Olson is traded to and we definitely don’t want to miss any games, Spring Training or otherwise.

                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                          It’s becoming increasingly obvious that the owners are betting that they can hold firm on the status quo more or less, anticipating that the union will drop its bigger demands (earlier arbitration and free agency) rather than being held responsible by the public for games being cancelled. (Nevermind the inherent assumptions necessary to hold such a position.)

                          MLB has already agreed to:
                          • An NBA-style draft lottery (to address so-called tanking concerns);
                          • A universal DH (giving 15 more jobs to aged, veteran sluggers);
                          • An increase in the minimum wage;
                          • An increase in the luxury tax threshold (i.e. the soft cap on payrolls); and
                          • The long-awaited elimination of compensation attached to free agent signings.
                          Their latest proposal included something in the way of penalizing teams (through the loss of draft picks, I believe) for playing time manipulation like the Kris Bryant incident.

                          Taken together, these are all positive steps in the right direction for the Players Association (and baseball). If the PA takes a “best we can get” from the owners now, they could fight the free agency/arbitration battle another day, at a time when that might be a more palatable hill to die on.

                          Frankly, I think most fans would be very pleased with a 2022 season that starts on time where we effectively see just these changes to MLB’s economic structure.

                          On the other hand, it’s the owners who have initiated the lockout, the owners who are refusing to even address the other sides’ primary concerns, etc. That kind of intransigence could play very poorly with the public if games start being delayed or cancelled.

                          After two years of all COVID and other high-stress events in this country, there is a very strong sentiment for things to get back to normalcy, making this an extremely inopportune time for the sport to give itself a black eye with John Q. Public.

                          Get your act together, boys, and let’s play some baseball. We all want to find out where Carlos Correa signs and where Matt Olson is traded to and we definitely don’t want to miss any games, Spring Training or otherwise.
                          Nicely said.
                          Put it in the books.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Without derailing the thread, this comment is simply offered to draw a parallel.

                            What gives with this stance of never compromising, avoiding debate and risking how it looks in the process? History always tells the tale, and the hot-takes of observers on the sidelines will last as long as snowmen under a summer sun.

                            The parallel I draw amounts to comparison to Congress. Change not a word of the comment above, and it would apply as accurately. Again, this is not a political comment, but more of a comment of the world we live in today.

                            What gives with how everything has to be a staredown? Compromise is a measure of civility. Surely, these nimrods on both sides would like to be role models off of the field, or away from their office at the park, just like they strive to be role models at the park. Again, this is not a political rant, but more of a rant on growing up. When a comparison to Congress is as simple as this, it is time for both sides to look in the mirror.
                            Catfish Hunter, RIP. Mark Fidrych, RIP. Skip Caray, RIP. Tony Gwynn, #19, RIP

                            A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill. (Please take note that I've recently become aware of how this quote applies to a certain US president. This is a coincidence, and the quote was first added to this signature too far back to remember when).

                            Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test first and the lesson later. -- Dan Quisenberry.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              You're quite right. Forget "winning" and "losing". It's quite clear with the last two proposals by the owners that the two sides could agree on a proposal that would substantially improve the game - many of what the owners offered yesterday - I just found out subjecting international players to the amateur draft was another part of the proposal - are items that concerned fans have been advocated for for decades. Do you know how many previous labor conflicts in this sport were the result of owners insisting on attaching compensation for the loss of a free agent? And they're willing to give that away (at long last) this time?

                              I understand the PA wants more, but it is really worth the damage of a lost season on the heels of COVID? Only the players would think so. We can say the same about the owners, but from the proposals exchanged so far (that we're aware of), while the owners have continually avoided certain topics - those topics most important to the PA no less - it is also the owners who have offered the most substantive improvements from the status quo, too.

                              Fans don't care whether management or labor fattens their wallet more. We do care about both parties ignoring the customer's needs, which is putting a product on the field in a timely manner.

                              I completely agree, abolishthedh. The older I get, the less I'm willing to go to the mattresses over every single thing. While I have stringent principles, in the real world, my life is one of pragmatism and compromise because, guess what? I don't have a magic wand and I'm not King of the Universe. In the words of Robert Wuhl, I'm not even King of the Wicker People.

                              If only there were more adults in the room at these negotiations.
                              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                                Addressing the proposal point-by-point...

                                1. Enact a payroll floor.
                                I'm not against the idea of having some mechanism whereby owners are required to invest in their team, I am against a set payroll threshold as major league payroll is not always the best use of funds for investment purposes. In other words, why should a last place team invest a marginal, say, $8 million in a first baseman that won't help them win more, when that $8 million is better invested elsewhere? That only serves to artificially inflate the pay of that first baseman and, consequently, others down the road by creating inflationary pressure on all salaries.

                                2. Continue the luxury tax.
                                This is going to happen regardless and, so far as the MLBPA is concerned, they would want this raised (if not abolished) ideally. In practice, the luxury tax has acted as a de facto salary cap which isn't so much good for competitive balance as it is good for the owners lining their pockets.

                                3. Hold revenue sharing recipients responsible for funds received.
                                This is a non-starter for the owners, but it shouldn't be. Hell, all local broadcast revenue should be divided 50%, but the owners getting their act together and making it harder for bad apples among them to operate with impunity would be a welcome start.

                                4. Increase the minimum wage.
                                I think this will happen regardless, though not to the $1.2 million first year minimum suggested in the article.

                                5. Complicated arbitration pool to replace current arbitration system.
                                This is a total non-starter and unserious as it would be acceptable to or desirable of neither side. The owners can stop service time manipulation and the players could give up their demand for earlier arbitration. If I were the owners, I'd agree to an additional year of arbitration in exchange for permitting arbitrators to select a compromise figure of their choice in hearings. This would add to the number of arbitration-eligible players each year, but would lower the average arbitration award by a not insignificant margin.

                                6. Weighted amateur draft lottery.
                                This is a good idea, but more importantly, there should be no cap on signing bonuses and draft picks should be tradeable commodities.

                                7. Expanded playoffs (from 10 to 14 teams).
                                I'm not averse to expanding the playoffs, but 14 out of 30 teams is an awful lot. MLB needs to design a playoff system that rewards teams with the best records and expands the number of games per series before adding additional teams to the playoffs.

                                8. Universal DH.
                                Long time coming.

                                9. Eliminate draft pick compensation related to free agency.
                                Also a long time coming. Better choices related to free agent market without this silly Qualifying Offer business.

                                10. Continue 7-innning double headers in 2022.
                                Please, God, no. This isn't part of the negotiations, nor should it be.

                                11. Implement 15-second pitch clock.
                                Another good idea and, yes, if the owners are going to budge on economic matters, they darned well ought to squeeze these sorts of things out of the PA in return. It'll make for a better product on the field.
                                Ugh, I hate 7 and 8 so much...
                                Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

                                Comment

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