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  • #16
    For the record... Larry's got a big mouth, I agree, and isn't shy about fanning the Rivalry's flames. Considering both teams' payrolls, and the disparity between them and the teams that are less-well endowed with cash, it does seem a bit of a stretch to say it's a David v. Goliath situation.

    But also consider that last year, the Red Sox payroll, sizable as it was, was still about $90M less than that of the Yankees. I'm not saying that this disparity puts the Sox in the same boat with, say, Cincinnatti. Just pointing out that, as fortunate as Boston is, it's still not close to NY in terms of payroll.
    --Annie
    Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
    Remember Yellowdog
    ABNY

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    • #17
      Originally posted by VTSoxFan
      Now wait just one cotton pickin' minute here......
      Hey, don't put it past my Yankee fan heritage to take a cheap shot at the Nation.

      Anyway ... regardless of the payroll, the "little guy" thing that Boston seemingly fell under seemed to go away after October 2004. After this, sans a curse, they're just a regular team right now, and an expected playoff team, just like the Braves, Cards, Yanks and Angels.

      I figure this is all about ticket sales. Since he says this now when I presume season tickets are being sold, perhaps he wishes to remind RSN that they're still the underdogs. After 2005's tie in number of games won, with 1st place only going to the Yanks based on a head-to-head matchup record, the "underdog" thing doesn't count any more.

      I think that both the front office and the fans should take it that they have just as good a chance to make the ALCS as the Yanks do, regardless of how much was or wasn't spent to get there.
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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      • #18
        Originally posted by YOUgodofwalks
        And unfinished_business, I don't really like you're generalization of Red Sox fans, we're really not that bad if you'd have a conversation with some of us here at BBF.

        I do not want to go to far, but i really have no problem with any of you Baseball-Fevers. Red Sox-Fan / Yankees-Fan / whatever-Fan. But what i was talking about is the big chunk of fans. when i see a game (on TV) at fenway or in the Bronx i was always got the feeling that the hometeam-fans in Boston or in the Bronx are only watching ONE team play. meaning i very rarely noticed a nice hand by the crowd for a nice play made by the oppositon (in YankeeStadium more than Fenway). i just felt that respect is not very strong for opposing teams (maybe i just watched way too many Red Sox - Yankees Games)

        the only Moment when i thought this a nice move by the Red Sox-Fans was their standing O for Roger Clemens in August 2003 (his last game in Fenway as of yet).

        Regarding the players:

        I do not know any Major League Ballplayer in private. But i assume neither do you. But here is a list of players on the Red Sox and Yankees who i think (and maybe a lot others too) are DIVAS:

        A-Rod Sheff Manny Pedro Nomar(though both are gone) Schilling RandyJohnson

        i feel these guys do not show the same amount of respect to the other players as their teammates and that comes a lot from the huge amounts of money they re cashing in. and the yankee and red Sox are the biggest spenders in Sports.


        But i would much rather want to know how you Red Sox-Fans feel when Lucchino compares his team to David against Goliath when he thinks about the RedSox-Yanks.
        with a payroll in the Top5 he is literally saying that his Front Office has NOT done a good job this winter!
        Last edited by unfinished_business; 02-24-2006, 07:55 AM.

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        • #19
          Larry's certainly got a big mouth...and I was hoping this would be the year he finally stopped talking so much after his leaks caused all the issues with "Theogate", but really...I think for Larry, he handled this pretty well.

          It was rather silly of George to "guarentee" a World Championship. Larry didn't bite and do the same...if he had, wouldn't that be worse than what he did say?

          I agree the David and Goliath line is a bit of hyperbole, but the rest of what he said seemed pretty reasonable. And hey, what's wrong with the Sox playing underdog to a Yankees team that obviously wants to see itself as favorites, setting themselves up for failure?
          Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by unfinished_business
            Regarding the players:

            I do not know any Major League Ballplayer in private. But i assume neither do you. But here is a list of players on the Red Sox and Yankees who i think (and maybe a lot others too) are DIVAS:

            A-Rod Sheff Manny Pedro Nomar(though both are gone) Schilling RandyJohnson

            i feel these guys do not show the same amount of respect to the other players as their teammates and that comes a lot from the huge amounts of money they re cashing in. and the yankee and red Sox are the biggest spenders in Sports.

            But i would much rather want to know how you Red Sox-Fans feel when Lucchino compares his team to David against Goliath when he thinks about the RedSox-Yanks.
            with a payroll in the Top5 he is literally saying that his Front Office has NOT done a good job this winter!
            What kind of respect were these players supposed to show their opponents? In general, I expect friendliness to your teammates. If you scowl, stare or have some mini celebration when hitting a HR or when striking out a batter, I'd say that's showing disrespect. Which examples made you feel these players weren't respecting their opponents?

            As to A-Rod, I wouldn't say he's a diva, but since he doesn't yell and scream like some blue collared guys do in bars, seems to "keep his top button on his shirt buttoned", so to speak, many people feel that he hasn't shown his true self. I wouldn't say he's a diva in that respect, but he does keep his feelings away from the media. Perhaps not a very good interview (read: very few soundbites), so that makes him a target.

            For Sheffield, he says what he does unapologetically. More of the very opinionated type who'll do so w/o filtering out some comments for decorum purposes, rather than the "look at me" type.

            Manny seems to beat to his own drum. Either that or an imaginary one. His spacey and goofey ways, as well as how much of an adventure he has getting to some balls in LF, are tolerable because he can smack the covers off the ball.

            Pedro to me is the truest diva out there. He seems to have no issues talking about how good he is. Excellent pitcher, but could be a bit more modest.

            Nomah ... likely one of the nicest ex-Boston players I've ever known this side of Yaz.

            Schilling ... well, I could do w/o the sound bites. When he interviews on many talk shows quite often, it's like the opposite of players who tend to guard their image religiously by giving out few interviews. Sometimes I wish he didn't have an opinion on everything. I'd say he's not a diva in admiring himself, but the maintenance seems quite high on him.

            Unit ... more gruffness than anything else. Anyone who used to wear that funky mullet or whatever they call it may get a "bye" for being a diva. Which true diva would be shorn so poorly? Then again, Manny and Pedro had their hair "don'ts" also.

            Your thoughts?
            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
            Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
            THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
            Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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            • #21
              Originally posted by unfinished_business
              When i see a game (on TV) at fenway or in the Bronx i was always got the feeling that the hometeam-fans in Boston or in the Bronx are only watching ONE team play. meaning i very rarely noticed a nice hand by the crowd for a nice play made by the oppositon (in YankeeStadium more than Fenway). i just felt that respect is not very strong for opposing teams (maybe i just watched way too many Red Sox - Yankees Games)

              the only Moment when i thought this a nice move by the Red Sox-Fans was their standing O for Roger Clemens in August 2003 (his last game in Fenway as of yet).
              I believe it was in '02, whe the A's were playing a the Fens, and the Sox were trailing by two runs in the bottom of the 9th, when somehow or other we got 2 runners on, with 2 out, and here comes Manny, and of course the crowd is in full voice. Manny socked one to deep right-center, and the crowd knew it was going out (the crowd at home, too, judging by how I jumped out of my chair), and were on their feet, when Terrence Long came darting out of center and made a magnificent, leaping, lunging, flying catch, pulling the ball back out of the bullpen... saving the game for the A's. Naturally there was a mass groan of anguish, but then many in the crowd applauded Long for his amazing catch. (I was probably mangling my scoresheets at that moment... :P but upon seeing the play again, I appreciated the effort and athleticism that went into it.)

              Of course we root harder for the home team (like the song says). But if you sit in the crowd at Fenway and listen, after the opponents make a nice play, you'll hear many fans grudgingly acknowldge it. "That was a great play...dammit" or words to that effect.
              --Annie
              Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
              Remember Yellowdog
              ABNY

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                Of course we root harder for the home team (like the song says). But if you sit in the crowd at Fenway and listen, after the opponents make a nice play, you'll hear many fans grudgingly acknowldge it. "That was a great play...dammit" or words to that effect.
                But ahmmmmmmmmm, ahhhhhhhhhhh ... which other words "to that effect" do they use over there? Gee, I tend to wonder.
                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                Comment


                • #23
                  You have to feel bad for those small market teams like the Royals and the Red Sox.

                  As far as the Red Sox fans: hiddengem stated, someone in his thread, that the consensus of Major League players is that the Red Sox have baseball's worst fans.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mattingly
                    Manny seems to beat to his own drum. Either that or an imaginary one. His spacey and goofey ways, as well as how much of an adventure he has getting to some balls in LF, are tolerable because he can smack the covers off the ball.

                    Pedro to me is the truest diva out there. He seems to have no issues talking about how good he is. Excellent pitcher, but could be a bit more modest.

                    Nomah ... likely one of the nicest ex-Boston players I've ever known this side of Yaz.

                    Schilling ... well, I could do w/o the sound bites. When he interviews on many talk shows quite often, it's like the opposite of players who tend to guard their image religiously by giving out few interviews. Sometimes I wish he didn't have an opinion on everything. I'd say he's not a diva in admiring himself, but the maintenance seems quite high on him.

                    Unit ... more gruffness than anything else. Anyone who used to wear that funky mullet or whatever they call it may get a "bye" for being a diva. Which true diva would be shorn so poorly? Then again, Manny and Pedro had their hair "don'ts" also.

                    Your thoughts?
                    Manny-- yeah, he's a goofball. I don't think there's an ounce of malice in him, but he seems to operate on his own plane of existence.

                    Pedro is a diva, self-confident to the point of cockiness and not afraid to say what pops into his head. But he's also full of beans, goofy, a jokester... I never heard any of the Sox complain about him, and have not, though he is just a memory in Boston. (Don't forget that divas are in great part a creation of the media...)

                    I never heard Nomar referred to as a diva. Intense, quiet, private, insular, perhaps, but not a diva. He hated the media in Boston but that only makes him smarter in my eyes. It was his distrust of the media that caused that selfsame media to tack all kinds of labels onto him. (Shaugnessy and Edes, among others, were snidely sneering about him wanting to be traded as early as 2000; Nomar insisted then and still does to this day that he never wanted to be traded. I know who I believe.)

                    Schilling's a windbag. He should take the energy he expends pontificating to the media and put it into training.
                    --Annie
                    Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
                    Remember Yellowdog
                    ABNY

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                      Manny-- yeah, he's a goofball. I don't think there's an ounce of malice in him, but he seems to operate on his own plane of existence.

                      Pedro is a diva, self-confident to the point of cockiness and not afraid to say what pops into his head. But he's also full of beans, goofy, a jokester... I never heard any of the Sox complain about him, and have not, though he is just a memory in Boston. (Don't forget that divas are in great part a creation of the media...)

                      I never heard Nomar referred to as a diva. Intense, quiet, private, insular, perhaps, but not a diva. He hated the media in Boston but that only makes him smarter in my eyes. It was his distrust of the media that caused that selfsame media to tack all kinds of labels onto him. (Shaugnessy and Edes, among others, were snidely sneering about him wanting to be traded as early as 2000; Nomar insisted then and still does to this day that he never wanted to be traded. I know who I believe.)

                      Schilling's a windbag. He should take the energy he expends pontificating to the media and put it into training.
                      I'll agree there's no nastiness in Manny. He'll occasionally get lazy, but can always be righted back into place. I guess someone dealing w/young kids would do better at this. I'm guessing that a bat is like a toy with him, and he likes to hit the ball far ... very far.

                      Yeah, Pedro's a jokester. That worked in Shea like it did at Fenway. His dugout antics when not pitching, such as taunting the other team's pitcher, seemed to go over well at Fenway. It's one of those things, like Paulie O'Neill's bashing the water coolers, that Yankee fans loved, but Red Sox couldn't stand. Many Yankee fans weren't too crazy about Pedro's dugout antics, so it all depends upon who you asked.

                      Nomah doesn't have any diva in him. However, I do question his decision-making when he'd actually asked for more than a $75m/5 yr deal. To me, that's a deal where you're lucky to get even if you *DO* ask for more. Now if only he'd have just accepted that deal and signed on the dotted line ...

                      Schilling ... Schill ... pontificator is right. Reminds me of one Warner Bros skit where "Mugsy", the mobster finds Bugs Bunny holed up at his hideout. Bugs talks endlessly so Mugsy says "shaddup". Bugs says, "Don't worry about me, I know when to shaddup. If there's anything I can do is ...", to which Mugsy says "Shaddup shuttin' up, rabbit".

                      Now, when does Schill shaddup shuttin' up?

                      If you feel like replying to my #17 here, please feel free to.
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mattingly
                        If you feel like replying to my #17 here, please feel free to.
                        And so I shall.
                        Hey, don't put it past my Yankee fan heritage to take a cheap shot at the Nation.

                        Anyway ... regardless of the payroll, the "little guy" thing that Boston seemingly fell under seemed to go away after October 2004. After this, sans a curse, they're just a regular team right now, and an expected playoff team, just like the Braves, Cards, Yanks and Angels.

                        I figure this is all about ticket sales. Since he says this now when I presume season tickets are being sold, perhaps he wishes to remind RSN that they're still the underdogs. After 2005's tie in number of games won, with 1st place only going to the Yanks based on a head-to-head matchup record, the "underdog" thing doesn't count any more.

                        I think that both the front office and the fans should take it that they have just as good a chance to make the ALCS as the Yanks do, regardless of how much was or wasn't spent to get there.
                        Exactly. Even though the Sox trailed the Yanks by $90M or so last season, the two teams finished with the exact same record. I don't think there's an aura of "underdog" around the Sox camp, from the reports, interviews, etc. that I've seen.

                        No team that operates on such a HE-YUGE budget, and has already almost sold out the park for the season is an underdog. The whole thing is about marketing. The whole David v. Goliath is a marketing ploy. It's to get people whipped up into excitement for the season, to get us all exercised about going after the division, showing Johnny Damon what's what, and so on and so forth, in order to sell tickets and souvenirs. Marketing, pure and simple.

                        Me, I just want to see a game. Any game. Guys having fun on a sunny green field, making me forget for a while the snow outside my window. I don't need some artificially inflated rivary to make me want to watch.
                        --Annie
                        Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
                        Remember Yellowdog
                        ABNY

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                          And so I shall.

                          Exactly. Even though the Sox trailed the Yanks by $90M or so last season, the two teams finished with the exact same record. I don't think there's an aura of "underdog" around the Sox camp, from the reports, interviews, etc. that I've seen.

                          No team that operates on such a HE-YUGE budget, and has already almost sold out the park for the season is an underdog. The whole thing is about marketing. The whole David v. Goliath is a marketing ploy. It's to get people whipped up into excitement for the season, to get us all exercised about going after the division, showing Johnny Damon what's what, and so on and so forth, in order to sell tickets and souvenirs. Marketing, pure and simple.

                          Me, I just want to see a game. Any game. Guys having fun on a sunny green field, making me forget for a while the snow outside my window. I don't need some artificially inflated rivary to make me want to watch.
                          Ahhhhhhhhhh, the Beantowner admits it's one of those "get yer butts in here" type of bullhorn statements.



                          *keeps that note in a safe hiding place, to used later on for evil purposes*

                          Still, I can't help but feel that it's also giving reassurance to RSN that despite 2004, they still have some underdog in them. You know, so as to not lose the "lovable loser" label of yore. Could be something that some of you folks just may have held onto.

                          That way, if the performances of Schilling, Foulke, Lowell and others don't pan out as hoped, then they could talk about the gutty effort. Hey, not such a bad thing, since once people expect too much, sometimes the fulfilling of this isn't always as much fun if it's expected all the time.
                          Last edited by Mattingly; 02-24-2006, 09:55 AM.
                          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                          • #28
                            David vs. Goliath? No. Ali-Frazier is more like it.
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                              David vs. Goliath? No. Ali-Frazier is more like it.
                              It's gonna be a Chilla ... of a Thrilla ... when Godzilla whups 'em all the way to Manila!

                              Not perfect, but it originally was:

                              It's gonna be a Killa of a Chilla of a Thrilla when I get the Gorilla in Manila.

                              Something like that.

                              Or more like JoeD-Teddy.
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                              Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                              THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                              Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                              • #30
                                Lucchino has said a bunch of stupid things, especially in the context of the rivarly. Someone should tell Lucchino to go work for the Royals and see if the Red Sox still look like a David.

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