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Why is Pettitte getting a pass?

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  • #31
    --You know what I'd like to see? I'd like Bud Selig to step up and say that MLB did a really lousy job of policing this situation for many years. That is was a wide spread problem and that they aren't going to waste any more time ivestigating who did what back before rules and testing were implemented. The focus should be on doing everything possible to get and keep the game clean going forward. I'd also like to see those who used step up immediately afterward and admit that they used and that it was a poor choice on their part. I don't need to hear all the details of what, when and how much they used. Just a simple admission that they tried some things in an attempt to make themselves better ballplayers and that they want to put it behind them. Maybe then we can get the focus back on baseball.

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    • #32
      I'd like to see him do that as he stands side by side with his co-conspiritor Don Fehr.

      I also would have liked to have seen these two treated the same way the 2 creeps were yesterday, when they appeared before congress.

      It's time to drag every guilty name through the mud, admitt all our beloved records have been molested, they can't be changed back, there is a stain on the entire era that history will judge, and move forward in a manner that ensures nothing like this will ever happen again.

      (and I do mean ALL, including the new consecutive game streak)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
        You know what ? You're right. I stand corrected. I actually forgot about that strange meandering apology that never once had a point of contrition. Ha.

        I guess now I might hold off on this comparison until I see what type of evasive platitudes come from the disingenuous, overrated, money is my true messhia, Pettitte when the obsequeious beat reporters lob him softballs this spring.
        Weren't there legal issues tied to that, like he couldn't mention specific things because of the status of grand jury investigations or whatever. Like he made his (vague) apology as if it was while the real story was still under some sort of embargo. I'm not sure, I could be, in the words of Clemens, mis-remembering.

        Bush actually used the word "misremember" once too. Maybe it really is a word in Texas!

        Originally posted by whoisonit
        (and I do mean ALL, including the new consecutive game streak)
        Viva sensationalism!
        THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

        In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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        • #34
          Originally posted by digglahhh View Post

          Viva sensationalism!
          Not everyone chooses to live in denial.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
            Not everyone chooses to live in denial.
            And not everyone chooses to be as cynical as you.
            46 wins to match last year's total

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            • #36
              Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
              And not everyone chooses to be as cynical as you.
              Facing the facts of life is not cynasim my freind, it is realistic. Denial of the facts does not solve a thing. It does in fact, always, make the situation worse.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                Facing the facts of life is not cynasim my freind, it is realistic. Denial of the facts does not solve a thing. It does in fact, always, make the situation worse.
                You're missing my point. I'm not saying that people don't take PEDs or that I'm denying it. What I am saying is that the effect of this cynicism is that players who are clean and do extraordinary feats (50+ homers in a season, amazing career or season records), will be suspected because of what they accomplished, almost as if there has to be a ceiling of what is a natural human accomplishment. I don't want to do that. That is what I call cynicism.
                46 wins to match last year's total

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
                  I don't want to do that. That is what I call cynicism.
                  Denigrating an argument with which you disagree by dismissing it as cynical is itself the hieght of cynisim. Isn't that ironic ? Wait - it gets better - you're statement "I don't want to do that" is tantamount to saying "I can't handle the truth", which is; living in denial.

                  Nobody wants to see inocent, honest ballplayers tainted, but then they should have come forward. IF there are any spotless players from this grotesque era, they have only themselves to blame for the stain they now have.
                  The only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Well, they did nothing, evil triumphed, so they carry the weight on their God given shoulders just as much as MacGuire and Bonds on their syntheticaly bloated shoulders.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by curveball View Post
                    ... Has Clemens ever said anything negative about himself? The guy is an egomaniac.
                    This is what many are missing. His friends and everyone near him knew this. That's in part why McNamee kept the needles and such. Clemens will burn any and all in his way - he will probably never admit anything - he won't take any pardon because that would be accepting guilt - he won't accept any blame - he'll continue to taut the great Roger Clemens - in short he'll keep lying. And it's not even convincing anymore. Roger Clemens is the illegitimate son of Pete Rose.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                      Facing the facts of life is not cynasim my freind, it is realistic. Denial of the facts does not solve a thing. It does in fact, always, make the situation worse.
                      So, Cal Ripken taking PEDs is now a fact?

                      What is this, is that jerk from That 70's Show gonna hop out and tell me I'm being Punk'd or something.... (Please somebody enlighten me if there is a more current pop culture reference that should replace the one I just made)

                      Please state your definition of "fact."

                      BTW, I believe the optimal ontology here is (healthy) skepticism, not to be confused with "cynisim" (sic). I'm not all into being "Team Grammar Police," but in a discussion dealing with philosophy and baseball, repeatedly misspelling both cynicism and McGwire is not a good sign...
                      Last edited by digglahhh; 02-14-2008, 02:22 PM.
                      THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                      In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Brooklyn View Post
                        I don't know enough about Pettite to know what he really believes in. But I know that his religion doesn't play into my decision factor. The fact that he did lie before, did drugs that he admitted was wrong, and finger pointed his father all lead me to believe that there is no reason he wouldn't lie again, even under oath
                        Why is the finger pointing his father such a big deal? This is a revelation that came out when he gave his deposition under oath right? So the questioning probably went like this:

                        Investigator: Are the references by Brian McNamee in the Mitchell Report to your use of HGH accurate?

                        Pettitte: Yes.

                        Investigator: Did you use HGH on any other occasion?

                        Pettitte: Yes.

                        Investigator: When?

                        Pettitte: 2004 while rehabbing.

                        Investigator: Were there any other occasions?

                        Pettitte: No.

                        Investigator: Where did you obtain the HGH from in 2004?

                        Pettitte: From my father.

                        So if Pettitte didn't tell the truth then, you'd be chastising him for lying. Seems like he can't win either way with you. He tells the truth, you condemn him for throwing his father under the bus. If he doesn't and tries to protect his father, you'll condemn him for lying. Seems like an oxymoronic standard. So what is it? He should tell the truth but lie about getting it from his father? Is that ok with you, one truth and one lie?

                        All these kind of things to me lend creedence to his testimony under oath. To summarize why I believe he's telling the truth under oath:

                        1) If he wanted to lie, why even bother adding new details under oath? Why not just lie and say that his original statement was the entire truth, instead of backtracking and making himself look like a liar to people like you?

                        2) Telling the truth exposes his father, and I'm sure that's not an easy thing to do at all.

                        3) Telling the truth could result in criminal charges for his friend Clemens. That too must not be easy.

                        4) Let's weigh what he'd have to lose by lying at this stage by what he'd have to gain? If he lies, he might face criminal charges, and perhaps spiritual reprecussions depending on his beliefs. On the flipside, if takes the easy way out and lies, he preserves his father's integrity, he doesn't hurt Clemens, and he doesn't make himself look foolish by backtracking. Put these all together and logically, it just doesn't make sense that he would be continuing to lie under oath, and yet still hurt people including himself. If he wanted to lie and face possible criminal punishment, why hurt people? Why not just lie and not hurt people and face the same criminal punishment. Put this all together, and logically he's likely telling the truth. If you don't believe Pettite, then you shouldn't believe McNamee either because he certainly has issues with backtracking (lying in the past to investigators, misplacing the date he allegedly injected Clemens in '98, changing his story on Knoblauch from a few times to over 50). Again, you seem to have a double standard here.
                        Last edited by DoubleX; 02-14-2008, 02:34 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                          Denigrating an argument with which you disagree by dismissing it as cynical is itself the hieght of cynisim. Isn't that ironic ? Wait - it gets better - you're statement "I don't want to do that" is tantamount to saying "I can't handle the truth", which is; living in denial.

                          Nobody wants to see inocent, honest ballplayers tainted, but then they should have come forward. IF there are any spotless players from this grotesque era, they have only themselves to blame for the stain they now have.
                          The only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Well, they did nothing, evil triumphed, so they carry the weight on their God given shoulders just as much as MacGuire and Bonds on their syntheticaly bloated shoulders.
                          Oh, that's hilarious. I'm being cynical by questioning cynicism.

                          The situation can't be that simple. If what you say is true, there has to have been something causing the clean players to not want to rat out their unclean teammates, if they have any, or even they even know.
                          46 wins to match last year's total

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by digglahhh View Post
                            I'm not all into being "Team Grammar Police," but in a discussion dealing with philosophy and baseball, repeatedly misspelling both cynicism and McGwire is not a good sign...
                            Heh heh heh heh.
                            46 wins to match last year's total

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by digglahhh View Post

                              BTW, I believe the optimal ontology here is (healthy) skepticism, not to be confused with "cynisim" (sic). I'm not all into being "Team Grammar Police," but in a discussion dealing with philosophy and baseball, repeatedly misspelling both cynicism and McGwire is not a good sign...
                              You're bringing up grammer and spelling because you disagree with what I'm saying ? Wow, this is another low point in your posts.

                              This is the second time in as many days you leave me unimpressed with your leval of maturity. Well, at least this time you're not calling me names !

                              Who tells you when it's time for lights out, your mom or a warden ?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
                                Oh, that's hilarious. I'm being cynical by questioning cynicism.
                                I thought it was a nice twist, no ?

                                The situation can't be that simple. If what you say is true, there has to have been something causing the clean players to not want to rat out their unclean teammates, if they have any, or even they even know.
                                [/Quote]

                                Like what ? Maybe they are just an insular small community and they go with the group. Perhaps it is that simple. Do you really think they didn't know ?

                                Comment

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