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Why is Pettitte getting a pass?

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    No - what I mean is we have no way of knowing who was clean and who wasn't. What we do know is they all maintained a wall of silence. To say the member's of this small. insular society, (MLB players), didn't know PED's were rampant simply doesn't pass the plausibility test. Their decision to do nothing, to remain silent as the sport was degraded, stains them all. It was this wall of secrecy that helped create the overwellming scandal we now have. Therefore, users and enablers alike have earned the 'scarlet letter'. (managers, coaches, team management, the union, MLB administration and no doubt some media jock sniffers earned it as well - but I was just talking about players).
    OK I got it now.

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  • whoisonit
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Did I misread your words, misunderstand the meaning. I thought when you said ........the scarlet letter is on every player that means they are all users or that is what we believe.
    No - what I mean is we have no way of knowing who was clean and who wasn't. What we do know is they all maintained a wall of silence. To say the member's of this small. insular society, (MLB players), didn't know PED's were rampant simply doesn't pass the plausibility test. Their decision to do nothing, to remain silent as the sport was degraded, stains them all. It was this wall of secrecy that helped create the overwellming scandal we now have. Therefore, users and enablers alike have earned the 'scarlet letter'. (managers, coaches, team management, the union, MLB administration and no doubt some media jock sniffers earned it as well - but I was just talking about players).

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    No we don't. That is my point shoeless. How can we know ?
    Did I misread your words, misunderstand the meaning. I thought when you said ........the scarlet letter is on every player that means they are all users or that is what we believe.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    Yes, sorry, I thought I said that.
    Well, I was just trying to clear that up, that's all.

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  • whoisonit
    replied
    Yes, sorry, I thought I said that.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    How could it be on every player when we have no way of knowing.
    I think he thinks that all players in baseball knew of steroid use by their teammates.

    Is that it, who?

    Leave a comment:


  • whoisonit
    replied
    No we don't. That is my point shoeless. How can we know ?

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    I understand this sentiment, but the thing is, what are we to make of the collective silence ? How do we look at this era and say - 'oh, his stats are ok -he was clean, he just wanted to be a stand up guy to his buddies, but this other guy - well, he was silent because he was part of it' ?
    The closing of ranks helped create this perversion of the game's holy grails, it's records & statisics. Who then is blameless ? Who was clean ? Who decides who was clean ? The scarlet letter is on every player.
    How could it be on every player when we have no way of knowing.

    Leave a comment:


  • ESPNFan
    replied
    Originally posted by runningshoes View Post
    Pettitte is getting a pass because he helped reel in the big fish.

    That doesn't mean he deserves one, but that's why he's getting one.
    We have a winner.
    Pettitte sold out his friends and family when it wasn't entirely needed. If he was on my team right now he would be persona non grata. Bigtime.

    Leave a comment:


  • whoisonit
    replied
    Originally posted by tommybaseball View Post
    I find it difficult to find fault with those who choose not to be a rat.
    I understand this sentiment, but the thing is, what are we to make of the collective silence ? How do we look at this era and say - 'oh, his stats are ok -he was clean, he just wanted to be a stand up guy to his buddies, but this other guy - well, he was silent because he was part of it' ?
    The closing of ranks helped create this perversion of the game's holy grails, it's records & statisics. Who then is blameless ? Who was clean ? Who decides who was clean ? The scarlet letter is on every player.

    Leave a comment:


  • tommybaseball
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Look, I agree with we have to move on too. Most of us don't pretend that the Mitchell Report named all the PED users. But what is the price that the clean players pay? That their accomplishments are tainted in the eyes of people like us because they aren't forthcoming about their actions or those of others?
    Well, I finally found something that we can at least partially agree on. It is truly a shame that those who played it clean will fall under a common cloud of doubt. I find it difficult to find fault with those who choose not to be a rat.
    I do not choose, however, to just move on and make believe that all is ok. Cognitive Dissonance is not something that I will ever be associated with again.

    Leave a comment:


  • digglahhh
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Look, I agree with we have to move on too. Most of us don't pretend that the Mitchell Report named all the PED users. But what is the price that the clean players pay? That their accomplishments are tainted in the eyes of people like us because they aren't forthcoming about their actions or those of others?
    I'd just like to point out that is indeed the dynamic that played out in that glorious period of American history known as McCarthyism.

    Perhaps we should also be reminded of the words of William Blackstone, about it being better to let 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man suffer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brooklyn
    replied
    Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
    Why is the finger pointing his father such a big deal? This is a revelation that came out when he gave his deposition under oath right? So the questioning probably went like this:

    Investigator: Are the references by Brian McNamee in the Mitchell Report to your use of HGH accurate?

    Pettitte: Yes.

    Investigator: Did you use HGH on any other occasion?

    Pettitte: Yes.

    Investigator: When?

    Pettitte: 2004 while rehabbing.

    Investigator: Were there any other occasions?

    Pettitte: No.

    Investigator: Where did you obtain the HGH from in 2004?

    Pettitte: From my father.

    So if Pettitte didn't tell the truth then, you'd be chastising him for lying. Seems like he can't win either way with you. He tells the truth, you condemn him for throwing his father under the bus. If he doesn't and tries to protect his father, you'll condemn him for lying. Seems like an oxymoronic standard. So what is it? He should tell the truth but lie about getting it from his father? Is that ok with you, one truth and one lie?
    That is part of the problem with doing illegal things and lying about it. It is a slippery slope.

    I'd have a lot more respect for Pettite if, in December when the Mitchell report was released, he came out and told the truth at that time. Here are some of his quotes from December:


    • "If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," "I accept responsibility for those two days."
    • "I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow," Pettitte said. "I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone."
    • "This is it -- two days out of my life; two days out of my entire career, when I was injured and on the disabled list."
    • "I wasn't looking for an edge; I was looking to heal. "
    • ""If I have let down people that care about me, I am sorry, but I hope that you will listen to me carefully and understand that two days of perhaps bad judgment should not ruin a lifetime of hard work and dedication"
    • "I have tried to do things the right way my entire life, and, again, ask that you put those two days in the proper context. People that know me will know that what I say is true."


    To summarize, he lied about only doing it twice. He didn't admit he had an error in judgement, just that it might be. He gave a half hearted apology. he said he wasn't looking for an edge, just to heal - doesn't he think that is an edge?

    If he had come out in December and said something like this, I'd have a lot more respect for him: "Yes, I tried HGH in 2002 and 2004. Reflecting, it was clearly an error in judgement and I apologize to anyone I may have let down" . That may be asking a lot for him to admit to using it in 2004 when there was no finger pointing of that, but the only way I'd really believe a proved user is if he admits to it and admits to something that he clearly didn't have to. If Pettite had said that, I'd have a lot of respect for him and believe that he didn't use it more than that.

    Even if him admitting to using it in 2004 was too much to ask, I'd have more respect for him if he just said he tried it, but didn't continually repeat that it was only two times in 2002.

    We don't really know why he admitted to 2004. Perhaps he did want to come clean. Perhaps he thought (correctly) that it would get him out of the hearing. Based on his history, I'm not confident that he didn't use more than he has admitted to date.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sweet Lou
    replied
    Originally posted by Doctor X View Post
    But . . . but . . . there ARE only two teams!!11!! :cap:
    Yer right, the White Sox, and the Cubs, or so my White Sox friends would say!



    -Lou

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctor X
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    *sighs* I give up.
    Good move.

    --J.D.

    Leave a comment:

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