i'm convinced clemens is either a lunatic or a bad liar

[fenrir]

some of the stuff clemens said yesterday was beyond ridiculous. he claims brian mcnamee injected his wife without him knowing. then he says he found out because she complained about negative side effects. he then claims to have called mcnamee and had a heated discussion with him. does any of that make sense to you? first off, if it was my wife, and i found out my personal trainer injected her with powerful substances like hgh i would be pissed off. all clemens did was have a "heated" conversation with mcnamee...so apparently the rocket didn't care that much that his trainer went behind his back and injected his wife with hgh, and of course that means he seen her private parts. yet clemens didnt fire mcnamee???????????????????? and if his wife experienced bad side effects, why didnt he seek the help of a doctor, or do any research????


then he contradicted himself when he said all his wife used was hgh in 03. he said that the conversation he and pettitte had back in 1999-2000 was about his wife's hgh use, yet his wife only admitted to using hgh in 2003, which he agreed with. now answer me this, how could clemens know in 99-2000 that brian mcnamee would inject his wife with hgh 4 years later, something he claims he didnt know till his wife told him????????????????????

the man embarassed himself yesterday with stuff like "misremembered" not knowing what a vegan is, etc...and then we learned yesterday he wanted to speak to his nanny before she met with the feds...ummmmmm, seems fishy to me. he hadn't kept in contact with her since supposedly 2001, yet suddenly he wanted to see her in 2008?

clemens is a tool. he may never be proven guilty in a court of law, but he's toast in the court of public opinion.

[whoisonit]

... he's toast in the court of public opinion.

Thats enough though. Thats the punishment that hurts him the most. He's getting what he deserves. Do you think Mike Piazza is enjoying this ?

[Brian McKenna]

Thats enough though.

That's fine with me too. As long as baseball fans see him as he is.

[fenrir]

Thats enough though. Thats the punishment that hurts him the most. He's getting what he deserves. Do you think Mike Piazza is enjoying this ?

oh believe me im happy that the truth finally came out. i've been saying for years that roger clemens used steroids. even on this forum ive been saying it long before the mitchell report came out, but his blind fanboys didnt want to believe it (and some still don't).

and i think piazza has a lot of restraint. if i was mike piazza i would have publicly criticized clemens for roid use, and would have arributed the bat throwing incident to roid rage.

[Doctor X]

Keep him out of the HoF.

Remove his awards from the years he used.

Apply the standards the Olympics use--you cheat, you lose the benefits.

. . . and I still want my pony. . . .

--J.D.

[efin98]

He may appear to be a lunatic or a bad liar but I think he's just so convinced of himself that he will never tell the truth nor admit anything regardless of how guilty he.

[Old Sweater]

That's fine with me too. As long as baseball fans see him as he is.

All fans don't have the same view of Clemens though.


My view is that Clemens is a great pitcher playing on a level playing field and should go to the HOF.


If MLB had started testing for PED's in the late 60's or early 70's my view of Clemens would be different.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

All fans don't have the same view of Clemens though.


My view is that Clemens is a great pitcher playing on a level playing field and should go to the HOF.


If MLB had started testing for PED's in the late 60's or early 70's my view of Clemens would be different.

Agreed all do not see him the same but the majority do see him as not being truthful and in the end his rep has been damaged. I haven't seen one poll in his favor, he is beaten bad in most. To him thats murder, he can't live with the fact that he is viewed as a steroid user and having some doubt his numbers and rank on the all time list.

It's your opinion and your entitled to it and that fine that you don't see him in negative light because you believe it's a level playing field. Roger would be happy if that was how the majority viewed him but thats not so. He should have admitted if he did or better just forget it. Instead he chose to fight in a public forum and he took a beating.

Level or not he is one that certainly appears to have used steroids so it doesn't matter that there are others, he got nailed and thats how he will be judged.

His defiant stand of the Pete Rose type is turning more against him, just the opposite of what he thought stone walling would do.

[whoisonit]

and i think piazza has a lot of restraint. if i was mike piazza i would have publicly criticized clemens for roid use, and would have arributed the bat throwing incident to roid rage.

Oooh ! Piazza calling Clemens black ? Umm, I don't know about that. I'm sure he's enjoying it, but why would he want to put the PED spotlight on himself ?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Piazza is not a doctor, and it's not like he's spent a lot of time with Clemens in locker rooms, etc to actually know anything. The last thing we need is accusations for the sake of accusations. We've had more than enough here to advocate players throwing other players under the bus without evidence. This isn't 1692 Salem .

[whoisonit]

The last thing we need is accusations for the sake of accusations.

The question is legitimate. It is not a narrow and limited "accusation for the sake [of it]". It is a much broader question than you imply, that speaks to this entire questionable era. The PED situation has enveloped the game like no other baseball issue in our lifetime. So indeed, why would a player of this era, who himself set records and and thus entered the rarified pantheon of all time greats want to now point at an accused and say "ah ha ! look at him, shame" ? One could also ask; why wouldn't Piazza want to put the PED spotlight on himself ?

In fact, Pedro Martinez yesterday did put the PED spotlight on himself. So the question of this tainted era's players doing so, or not, has now moved front and center, in my opinion. It has already begun.

[MyDogSparty]

All fans don't have the same view of Clemens though.


My view is that Clemens is a great pitcher playing on a level playing field and should go to the HOF.


If MLB had started testing for PED's in the late 60's or early 70's my view of Clemens would be different.

That's fair enough but you've said some nasty things about McNamee in effort to defend Clemens and I find it hard to understand why you dislike McNamee so much when Clemens has shown much of the same personality characteristics, lying, deceiving bringing down friends, wife, etc. Perhaps he's even worse because he continues to carry on with his charades as he attempts to mow over anyone in the way of his lies.

Your "level playing field" comment now makes it sound like you're admitting that you now think Clemens used PEDs but you don't care becaue everyone must have been doing it.

[west coast orange and black]

fenrir: if i was mike piazza i would have publicly criticized clemens for roid use...

doing so would accomplish what?
that is, besides ticking off the dozens in piazza's lockerooms who also used.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

All fans don't have the same view of Clemens though.


My view is that Clemens is a great pitcher playing on a level playing field and should go to the HOF.


If MLB had started testing for PED's in the late 60's or early 70's my view of Clemens would be different.

Agreed Roger is a great player, HOF up to the voters. I think he will get in but maybe not the first time around.

Should MLB have been testing long ago yes. But in the end (no pun intended) Roger if he did made that choice. The user alone shoulders all the blame. This is a bit like the old ghetto defense....hey look at the neighborhood I live in, go easy on me.

How can it be level if every single player, hitter and pitcher is not using the same substance. Yes the problem may be deeper and bigger than we know but I doubt anyone with common sense can say every player is using.
It may sound and it may be silly but how else does one counter the level playing field statement.

As soon as I find out that all are users, I'll never bring up steroids again.

[Bench 5]

Few Good Men Flashback

Clemens: You want answers?

Congressman: I think I'm entitled to them.

Clemens: You want answers?

Congressman: I want the truth!

Clemens: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has baseballs. And those balls have to be hit by men with bats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Congressman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for steroids and you curse HGH. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that HGH, while illegal, probably sells tickets. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, sells tickets...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that mound. You need me on that mound. We use words like fastball, slider, split finger...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent playing a sport. You use 'em as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and falls asleep to the Sportscenter clips I provide,! then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a bat and dig in. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Congressman: Did you order the HGH?

Clemens: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.

Congressman: Did you order the HGH?

Clemens: You're g**damn right I did!!