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stick a fork in bonds, he's done

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  • #16
    xx: Did Bonds ever deny under oath having failed a steroids test (or knowledge of failing)?

    nope.
    "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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    • #17
      Did Bonds ever deny under oath using steroids?

      Given a positive test in 2000, the defense of "unknowing" rather evaporates.

      --J.D.

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      • #18
        xx: the issue here is whether Bonds lied during his BALCO Grand Jury testimony, right?

        correct.

        .. .. .. .. ..


        Didn't he say then that he used the substances but didn't know they had steroids when he used them?

        bonds has not ever stated that he used either "the cream" or "clear" / "the clear." the feds believe hat he did but have not been able to determine the contents of the substances that bonds actualy used.

        .. .. .. .. ..

        I guess I need to know what sworn statement by Bonds does the government claim was a lie?

        q: "well, when you say you don't think [anderson] would [give steroids to you], to your knowledge, i mean, did you ever take any steroids that he gave to you?"

        a: "not that i know of."

        q: "in the weeks and months leading up to november 2000 were you taking steroids--"

        a: "no."

        q: "--or anything like that?"

        a: "no, i wasn't at all."

        q: were you obtaining testosterone from mr, anderson during [december 2001]?"

        a: "not at all."

        q: an were you taking any other steroids?"

        a: "no."

        then there are questions concerning human growth hormone and injections, and a few more directly about steroids.

        it has already been posed by the bonds camp that bonds' initial "not that i know of" holds for the questions asked of him after that. that is, that all of bonds' answers include an unspoken "unknowingly."

        .. .. .. .. ..

        the november 2007 indictment includes that investigators had possession of "positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance-enhancing substances for bonds." so what's the news here?
        Last edited by west coast orange and black; 02-15-2008, 02:16 AM.
        "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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        • #19
          runningshoes: I'm assuming BALCO performed the test...

          uh-uh. quest laboratories did.
          "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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          • #20
            doctor x: Given a positive test in 2000, the defense of "unknowing" rather evaporates.

            the assumption here is that balco told bonds of the results from quest lab.
            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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            • #21
              Your assumption is that they did not.

              Your quotation of his testimony above helps demonstrate why the Feds know the test is important.

              --J.D.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by west coast orange and black View Post
                doctor x: Given a positive test in 2000, the defense of "unknowing" rather evaporates.

                the assumption here is that balco told bonds of the results from quest lab.
                I'm curious, can you fill me in on the details, please? Was this 2000 test performed by BALCO? At MLB's insistence (or scheduling)? Did Barry Bonds in fact fail this test (testing "positive")? Who was BALCO expected to report the findings of the test to? Was the player (Bonds) expected to be told the test results?

                Thanks.
                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                • #23
                  I'm only going to say this once. Threads of this nature, where someone says so and so is going to jail, is going to have this happen to them is going to have that happen to them, are out. Until there is a conviction and sentencing then you can post like this. But speculation of this nature is not going to happen. You want to use this site and forum as your own player-hating speculation rant, get your own blog. Not in this forum!
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                  • #24
                    The Bonds threads are exactly like the old Pete Rose threads before he came clean. His defenders, abandoning any concept of common sense and decency, would grasp at any straw, twist any fact, and attack the veracity of the accusers to maintain the innocence of their guy.

                    And just like Rose's defenders when Bonds finally comes clean they will mutter how they were betrayed. And a few years later they will take up the cause again.
                    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
                      The Bonds threads are exactly like the old Pete Rose threads before he came clean. His defenders, abandoning any concept of common sense and decency, would grasp at any straw, twist any fact, and attack the veracity of the accusers to maintain the innocence of their guy.

                      And just like Rose's defenders when Bonds finally comes clean they will mutter how they were betrayed. And a few years later they will take up the cause again.
                      You can replace 'Bonds' with 'Clemens' and it makes this observation twice as correct.

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                      • #26
                        doctor x: Your assumption is that they did not.
                        come again?
                        you stated, "given a positive test in 2000, the defense of "unknowing" rather evaporates," while i have not made any claims one way or the other.


                        Your quotation of his testimony above helps demonstrate why the Feds know the test is important.
                        agreed. but i do not yet have a conclusion, as do you.
                        "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                        • #27
                          Mattingly: Was this 2000 test performed by BALCO?
                          no. by quest laboratories.

                          At MLB's insistence (or scheduling)?
                          no. mlb was unaware of the testing panels.

                          Did Barry Bonds in fact fail this test (testing "positive")?
                          federal prosecutors believe so.

                          Who was BALCO expected to report the findings of the test to?
                          balco was quest's client; balco ordered the tests. it is reasonable that that is as far as it needs to go. no?

                          Was the player (Bonds) expected to be told the test results?
                          *shaking magic 8 ball* my sources say "no."
                          "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                          • #28
                            kcghost: [Bonds'] defenders, abandoning any concept of common sense and decency, would grasp at any straw, twist any fact, and attack the veracity of the accusers to maintain the innocence of their guy.

                            And just like Rose's defenders when Bonds finally comes clean they will mutter how they were betrayed. And a few years later they will take up the cause again.


                            twist ... attack ... abandon common sense and decency ... just where is this all taking place?
                            and, what else does the future hold?
                            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by west coast orange and black View Post
                              Mattingly: Was this 2000 test performed by BALCO?
                              no. by quest laboratories.

                              At MLB's insistence (or scheduling)?
                              no. mlb was unaware of the testing panels.

                              Did Barry Bonds in fact fail this test (testing "positive")?
                              federal prosecutors believe so.

                              Who was BALCO expected to report the findings of the test to?
                              balco was quest's client; balco ordered the tests. it is reasonable that that is as far as it needs to go. no?

                              Was the player (Bonds) expected to be told the test results?
                              *shaking magic 8 ball* my sources say "no."
                              Thanks for your replies to this.

                              A few more questions:

                              Since Quest Labs was a BALCO client, and they'd asked for Bonds to take this test for them, why did they ask him to do so? What I'm trying to find out is, are the federal prosecutors of Bonds trying to say that they were checking around to see if their (BALCO's) drugs were not being shown as testing positive? As in BALCO's making sure that whatever they'd allegedly given him was in fact not giving a "positive" reading by a PED testing lab.

                              Has Quest Labs ever done any work with MLB and/or any other well-known pro or amateur leagues before (NBA, NFL, NHL, IOC, MLS, etc)? Since I'm unfamiliar with them, I'm trying to find out what kind of PED testing they routinely do. Any info on this you can provide, I would greatly appreciate.
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                              Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                              THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                              Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                              • #30
                                Mattingly: Since Quest Labs was a BALCO client, and they'd asked for Bonds to take this test for them, why did they ask him to do so?
                                balco was quest's client, not vice-versa; quest performed testing on behalf of balco, not bonds. bonds was not quest's client. it could very well be that bonds was unaware that balco outsourced testing.

                                What I'm trying to find out is, are the federal prosecutors of Bonds trying to say that they were checking around to see if their (BALCO's) drugs were not being shown as testing positive? As in BALCO's making sure that whatever they'd allegedly given him was in fact not giving a "positive" reading by a PED testing lab.
                                "not being shown as testing positive"... hmm... the feds would not hafta go far to get that information: the great majority of balco's substances for sale were 100% legit.
                                re bonds exclusively: quest is the nation's premeire testing company. their threshold of expertise is not surpassed. it is posible and even likely that balco: (a) wanted to know outright if bonds would test positive and/or (b) wanted a second opinion.

                                Has Quest Labs ever done any work with MLB and/or any other well-known pro or amateur leagues before (NBA, NFL, NHL, IOC, MLS, etc)?
                                they've done everybody.

                                Since I'm unfamiliar with them, I'm trying to find out what kind of PED testing they routinely do.
                                well, they are capable of testing for every known substance... and even for stuff that has only recently hit the market.
                                "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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