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Would you forgive Clemens and Bonds if they Apologized??

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  • BoweryBoys
    replied
    "High moral" fans of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your fan privledges. (i.e. your right to hate steroids in the game, question records, and continue to support the game you have loved and supported for years unless you just accept steroid use as no big deal)

    My apologies for paraphrasing John Sayles in "Eight Men Out" here. I guess that makes me a bigger sleaze then those who used illegal drugs in MLB to prolong careers and make a mockery of records.

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  • BoweryBoys
    replied
    Originally posted by bkmckenna View Post
    Nice post! The egos those two must have (plus Clemens' wife) to throw others under the bus for their own actions. Kind of disgusting if you think about it. Not anyone I would want surrounding me.

    Bonds just sat there probably feast at the finest restaurants and living his charmed life while Anderson was incarcerated. Great guy!

    Likewise with Clemens and his wife - calling news conferences, taping conversation, going all the way to Congress and calling McNamee the liar when it was them putting on the act. Doesn't get much dirtier. Old story I guess about the rich stepping on whomever they please and believing the rules pertain to all but them.

    The further it goes into this mess, the more I hope people don't stand up and treat them like heros again - on the street or in Cooperstown.
    Mild Sauce and BK, two right on guys who clearly understand why this matter is important and why "the steroid era" is probably the darkest and most corrupt era in the history of the game. I guess myself, and the two guys mentioned above, are what some people here might call "high moral fans". I'm proud to be called that and in such company of people who clearly "get it" to use an expression.

    Bonds and Clemens, such "heroes" they deserve our unquestioning and blind support. When my kids grow up, I want them to be just like those two. After all those is no higher calling then to go to jail for your friends, even when they may be guilty of illegal activity..right?

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  • SilentKiller
    replied
    I'd have nothing to forgive them for because they haven't anything to me personally. It's their bodies and if they choose to put drugs in their bodies that is their choice not nobody else's choice.

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  • west coast orange and black
    replied
    ^^
    is andy pettite on your short list?

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  • TonyK
    replied
    What are the qualifications for an athlete to make the Hall of Shame? There are quite a few modern era jerks in several sports who must be very close to making it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian McKenna
    replied
    Originally posted by Mild Sauce View Post
    The thing that gets me more is the constant lies that spewed from the mouths of both Bonds and Clemens. They simply lied and tried to throw other people under the bus while doing it. Clemens tried to ruin the life of McNamee, and Bonds allowed his friend to serve one entire jail sentence and most of another. What these guys did was much worse than anyone else. Not just because of how it helped their performances, but because of who they hurt and the lies they told in the process.
    Nice post! The egos those two must have (plus Clemens' wife) to throw others under the bus for their own actions. Kind of disgusting if you think about it. Not anyone I would want surrounding me.

    Bonds just sat there probably feast at the finest restaurants and living his charmed life while Anderson was incarcerated. Great guy!

    Likewise with Clemens and his wife - calling news conferences, taping conversation, going all the way to Congress and calling McNamee the liar when it was them putting on the act. Doesn't get much dirtier. Old story I guess about the rich stepping on whomever they please and believing the rules pertain to all but them.

    The further it goes into this mess, the more I hope people don't stand up and treat them like heros again - on the street or in Cooperstown.
    Last edited by Brian McKenna; 03-01-2008, 01:49 PM.

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  • Mild Sauce
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    They are the same as Bonds/Clemens but they are not getting any of the vile hatred that Bonds/Clemens are now receiving.
    I agreed with a lot of what you said, but this is something that I just cannot understand. What sacred records did they break? How did their performances completely blow up as a use of these things?

    Those right there are just little things. The thing that gets me more is the constant lies that spewed from the mouths of both Bonds and Clemens. They simply lied and tried to throw other people under the bus while doing it. Clemens tried to ruin the life of McNamee, and Bonds allowed his friend to serve one entire jail sentence and most of another. What these guys did was much worse than anyone else. Not just because of how it helped their performances, but because of who they hurt and the lies they told in the process. I cannot in any way condone that sort of behavior.

    The guys who took them once or twice or whatever and admitted it when they got caught are obviously no saints, what they did was very bad and I hate the fact that they did the juice, but you simply cannot within all rational reason compare them to what Bonds and Clemens have done.

    As for the question posed by the topic, I'll forgive, as I always will, but I will never forget.

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  • JerseySoxFan19
    replied
    i wouldn't forgive 'em. even if they did apologize it'd be like "i'm just gonna say sorry so i don't look like the big piece of crap i am.".

    Leave a comment:


  • Go get em Tigers
    replied
    No I would not forgive them

    They, and many like them, soiled the great game of baseball. They cheated and created "records" that are illegitimate. At least Mark McGwire had enough respect for baseball tradition to get out of the game, before he challenged a record.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pere
    replied
    Originally posted by Old Sweater View Post
    If what Canseco and Caminiti said is true about the 40-60% using
    Everybody knows there were more users than those named by Mitchell.

    However, I wouldn't go by the proportional estimates of players who, by all accounts, tended to advocate their own usage and surround themselves with other users. I expect the clean players mostly kept their distance from those two.

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Sweater
    replied
    If she was my girlfriend, the answer is no, it was my pick out of the population.

    If she was a player on my favorite girls team where 40-60% are suspected cheaters, the answer is yes.

    If she was a victim of a conducted witch hunt to single her out, my answer is yes.

    If she was a victim of investigator with a conflict of interest, my answer is yes.

    If she was the only one singled out in a league of non cheating players, my answer would be no.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stumanji
    replied
    Originally posted by zahavasdad View Post
    Would you forgive Clemens and Bonds if they pulled an Andy Pettite and apologized and told Kids roids is Stupid and beg for mercy on the court?
    Here's how I feel about this...

    Imagine you have the perfect girlfriend. She's gorgeous, funny, cute, smart, and incredibly sexy. You are madly in love with her.

    But, she gives you this vibe that she's cheating on you. You can't prove it, but you think she's fooling around.

    Every time you bring it up, how friendly she is with certain guys, how she's often staying at "her sister's house", how funny she thinks some other guy is, etc. -- every time you bring it up, she gets defensive and calls you crazy and repeatedly denies cheating on you.

    Years go by, and the same behavior persists, and she still repeatedly denies it. Then the relationship starts to come to an end. You just don't trust her anymore, even though you can't prove she's done anything. She senses the end but doesn't want to lose you, because you're awesome (and you are - pat yourself on the back) so she comes clean. She says she cheated on you, several times, mostly in the past - and that she didn't really know it was cheating because she was drunk, or in a different area code, or because it was a threesome. She's telling you because she wants forgiveness, she wants to start fresh, and she doesn't want the reputation as a CHEATER.

    Do you forgive her?

    I can't.

    Leave a comment:


  • CJMorello
    replied
    Forgive them for what? They cheated, whether at the time, it was against baseball rules or not. They both took substances, that without perspirations are illegal. As far as Andy goes, why do many think that he is better than Clemens. Because once backed up against the wall with no choice he, only then, decided to tell the truth. DO people really think that this is someone you can tell a kid is a role model. That if you do something illegal, and once questioned by the government, if then you tell the truth you are a good person. Maybe if once steroids and Hgh use had become a big issue, Andy had then come out and admitted it then possibly you have something. But he only did so once given no choice but admitting the truth. Only difference is that Clemens is more arrogant and probably at this point has convinced himself that he did not do them. Because he was once arguably the greatest pitcher to play the game. Now he is a guy that was in "Twilight of his carear" and used drugs to continue his carear.
    Last edited by CJMorello; 02-21-2008, 08:40 AM. Reason: Gramar

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by Skin & Bones View Post
    I never said they were better, I just argued that if MLB really cared about it's drug problem they would of told Mitchell to investigate Amphetamines use by players as well.
    I'm not sure if I stated that you said amphetimines were better or were a more effective performance substance. If I recall one of your posts contained an attachment, an article that said amphetimine use was more widespread than steroid use.

    That article appeared to downplay steroid use, what about amphetimines. So my point of my later post, it was more convinient, easier to just drop a pill, greenies than to follow a schedule of steroid use which is often coupled with working out. Thats probably the reason greenies are preferred over steroids, not because greenies are a better, more effective performance booster.

    I think they should have looked into, exposed more and discussed the use of amphetimines at the hearings. The Mitchell report should also have dug into the use of greenies but I think the explosion in recent times of the use of steroids made steroid use in the game their only target.

    Both are bad and MLB should have done something about substance use years ago.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-21-2008, 05:15 AM.

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  • Old Sweater
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    I'm with you on that one, the game never was and never will be completely clean. If the fans wanted it that way we would never watch the game of baseball or in plain truth we would not watch or attend any sport.

    I'm not going to shut out the game I love because it has flaws and rule breakers.

    As for Roger, he can't win, admit or fight, he is now viewed differently than some years ago. Because there others who have not been brought up front won't change how he is viewed. It still goes back to the fact that he put himself in this position. He supplied the ammo by his supposed action. I say supposed because even though I think he was a user he still has to be considered innocent.

    I agree with you on his stance but not on how the situation came about.

    Selig/ ex owner of a small market club appoints Mitchell to head the investigation

    George Mitchell/ Red Sox front office/ member of Congress/ chairman of the board for the drug company involved/ and I'm not sure but I believe that Scheer(?} who was at the hearing, works for Mitchell's law firm that he owns.(?) IMO<------- That is way to much conflict for Mitchell to have been appointed and I'm sure anyone who is standing in Clemens shoes, or is a fan of Clemens, feels the same way. Even a good percentage of neutral baseball fans would agree on that.

    Red Sox/ no active players on list. Didn't resign Brian Donnelly just hours before the list was released. Gabe Kapler a body builder sat out a year in his youth to coach a Red Sox minor league team?????????? Kapler trying out for the Brewers this year????????

    Brewers/ no active players on list that I know of.

    Yankees Players/ have a target on their back, can't be this much of a coincidence with the wide spread use of PED's in MLB.

    Yankee Hate/ #1 in the Nation, which makes many haters 2nd fav team "whoever is playing the Yankees."

    MLB/ Letting most players collect HOF career stats before the player becomes a focal part of a investigation for the sake of making MLB look good on their stance on PED's in the sport.

    MLB/ Selig and Fehr tap dancing around questions at a Congress hearing and lied about not supporting the silence of players and owners regarding the Mitchell report.

    Leave a comment:

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