Pitcher's Velocity Gain from PED (average)

[Old Sweater]

Just like to see what ya'll think on the matter.

[Old Sweater]

I'd like to read the comments on the 3 that voted for 5mph as to how they came to this conclusion.

[Imgran]

I've always been under the impression that for pitchers, PED was always more about endurance than gaining velocity. I was also under the impression that while conditioning does affect velocity, balance and mechanics are much bigger factors.

[brett]

Anabolics would not necessarily add any speed, though they could if the player had weak legs/base and built up his legs and back and abs.

Throwing a baseball fast is almost entirely due to flexibility and how the player's reflexes are wired (high threshold or low threshold). Any weightlifting of the upper extremities would HURT absolute maximal velocity because all forms of weight training (or any training for that matter) remove Type IIb muscle fibers from the muscle pool. These are the absolute fastest.

Although it is somewhat more complex than this, practically, you have Type I (slow), Type IIa, (fast/strength endurance) and Type IIb or IIx (fastest but no endurance).

ANY strength training will move the slow OR fastest fibers toward the middle ground.

I-------------->IIb<-------------IIa/IIx

After a training session, rest causes a shift back of IIb to IIa/x. Pitchers probably burn out over a season because their IIa/IIx are ALL moved into the IIb type because of the frequency and volume of work.

Recovery agents therefore can keep a player from ever dropping off over the season. They throw 95 all year instead of starting to lose some velocity as they lose the fastest fibers.

Leg strength is totally different though. Most of this comes from IIb fibers because they don't have to be ultra fast.

There are also specific aids which raise the nervous system reflex threshold and allows you to throw/run faster without having your nervous system put on the brakes.

Leg strength + higher reflex threshold + enough recover to prevent burnout.

[Sweet Lou]

brett, that was an interesting and informative post. Thanks! :applaud:

[MyDogSparty]

Dan Naulty, admitted steroid user, claims (link) that he lost close to 15MPH on his fastball when he stopped using steroids.

There used to be a video of him talking about it on ESPN OTL but it's not there anymore. It was pretty moving. It was first hand experience.

Opps, I found the video: http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...05493&n8pe6c=1

[RubeBaker]

Just look at Roger Clemans. He never gained any velocity back on his fastball. All they do is help them heal and help with longevity. They do NOT add any speed to the pitch.

[Skin & Bones]

Just look at Roger Clemans. He never gained any velocity back on his fastball. All they do is help them heal and help with longevity. They do NOT add any speed to the pitch.

So I guess Naulty and Crawford were confused?

[Imgran]

Maybe steroids stop bad mechanics from killing an arm allowing you to maintain velocity even with a self-destructive delivery?

[brett]

Maybe steroids stop bad mechanics from killing an arm allowing you to maintain velocity even with a self-destructive delivery?

Actually they tend to make the muscles strong faster than the tendons, and so create an imbalance that would result in basically the mucle tearing the tendon. They also may raise the muscles threshold for force production. Again this would increase injuries.

They would prevent injuries by allowing strength imbalances in the legs, abs and back to be eliminated, resulting in more proper form.

[bob]

So why did pitchers take them if it makes them more injury prone and slows them down?

[Old Sweater]

So why did pitchers take them if it makes them more injury prone and slows them down?

From the articles I have read and like some other BBF posters have stated, it is mostly used for recovery by pitchers but they still run the risk of tendon and ligament damage no matter what the PED is that they use. The pitchers that run the highest risk of injury though are the ones that use the PED to strengthen the arm it's self. Strength is not a factor in throwing the ball since it weight's so little (5oz?) Flexibility is valued way more for velocity and the arm you're born with is more or less what you have with little gain for improvement of velocity, especially when you hit the top level of baseball and even less the closer you are to the human ceiling of 100mph. The ceiling is around 100mph and always will remain around 100mph as long as a human arm is used.

[fenrir]

i say pitchers gain 3-5mph. sure injuries is a possibility but thats why clemens had a personal trainer to inject him with the right dosage that will enhance his performance, but will not injure him. mcnamee knew what he was doing, thats why clemens hired him.

[Old Sweater]

i say pitchers gain 3-5mph. sure injuries is a possibility but thats why clemens had a personal trainer to inject him with the right dosage that will enhance his performance, but will not injure him. mcnamee knew what he was doing, thats why clemens hired him.

If McNamee knew what he was doing, why didn't Pettitte know about short term use of HGH?

One admitted user that use to pitch for the Red Sox, made a claim of 3mph but his arm blew and he is now working on the family farm.


Edit: The Red Sox pitchers name is Paxton Crawford. I couldn't find the info where Paxton Crawford claimed the 3mph in velocity that I read about a year ago. He was using the high tech stuff and his shoulder and back still went on him. Paxton is also the clown that claimed to fall out of bed on a glass and wasn't to well liked in the club house.

The 28-year-old Crawford went 5-1 for the Red Sox in 2000 and 2001, but never pitched at the major league level after that. Back problems (which he blames on steroid use) ultimately spelled the end for Crawford, whose career ended in the minor leagues in 2005. According to ESPN The Magazine, he is currently working on his family’s farm in Arkansas.


I started off injecting myself in the ass with 1 cc of Deca every week, a lot less than some guys were taking. I was also introduced to Winstrol, or Winny. That was the big thing with pitchers -- a combo of Winny and Deca. Winny would improve your fast-twitch muscles and help you gain velocity. Deca, which is oil-based, would keep your tendons and joints lubed up and make you feel better the next morning.

[fenrir]

i dont know anything about crawford...or who he even was until now...but you cant compare clemens to some fringe relief pitcher who could barely hack it in the majors in the first place. clemens is a workout fiend...and mcnamee has a phd. clemens knew what he was doing and how to maximize the benefits of roids and hgh. he may have spent a couple of weeks on the dl during certain seasons, but overall he was very healthy...thanks to his "medicine"...