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Photo Evidence might exist that Clemens was at the Party

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Skin & Bones View Post
    If anyone actually took the time to read Clemens deposition, you would have read that Clemens acknowledged the possibility that he was at the party for a brief time.



    He could simply point out that these "pictures" were taken during the the brief time he was there after Golfing.

    I don't think you're correct. Clemens doesn't acknowledge anything. At least not with the part of the deposition that you quoted. The part from Clemens' deposition that you quoted does NOT prove what you posted at all. That quote implies that he could have been at Jose's house at some point during the time (which could be years) he knew Canseco but it clearly states that he was NOT there on the date being questioned.
    ?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by MyDogSparty View Post
      I don't think you're correct. Clemens doesn't acknowledge anything. At least not with the part of the deposition that you quoted. The part from Clemens' deposition that you quoted does NOT prove what you posted at all. That quote implies that he could have been at Jose's house at some point during the time (which could be years) he knew Canseco but it clearly states that he was NOT there on the date being questioned.
      Well, that was from his desposition. If Clemens wasn't referring to the party though, why would he just randomly blurt that he could of been at Canseco's house after a Golf Game? He had to be talking about one specific incident, and I think it was the party in June of 1998.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Imgran View Post
        Altogether now...


        *yawwwwwwwwwn!!!!!*

        It's gotta be a matter of substance before it's perjury. I have my doubts that this qualifies.
        I agree with this. The media is hyping this up, but so what if he was at the party? First it would have to be shown that the pictures are of that same party - it's possible Canseco had multiple parties and Clemens appeared at one of them, but not the one McNamee was talking about. Even if it is the right party, what exactly does it prove? That he lied about being at the party, or perhaps just doesn't remember being at the party? Yeah, the natural chain of thought is that if Clemens lied about this, what else did he lie about, but this doesn't prove that he materially lied about using performance enhancers, which is the focus here. To this party evidence, Clemens could come back and say, "Well it was 10 years ago, I've been to a lot of parties, so I didn't remember going to this one." So you'd have prove that he knew he lied, and that could be a hard thing to actually prove, even if he all believe he did knowingly lie under oath.

        I just don't see Clemens going to jail over this party thing, despite with the geniuses at ESPN (aka MTV Sports, or perhaps E Sports) would like us to think. For jail to be a real possibility here, some evidence, beyond just McNamee, is going to have to come to fore that corroborates that Clemens did use performance enhancers.
        Last edited by DoubleX; 02-26-2008, 08:23 AM.

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        • #34
          theres recent news that an old teammate of clemens said clemens was at the party.
          http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...that_woul.html

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          • #35
            Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
            I agree with this. The media is hyping this up, but so what if he was at the party? First it would have to be shown that the pictures are of that same party - it's possible Canseco had multiple parties and Clemens appeared at one of them, but not the one McNamee was talking about. Even if it is the right party, what exactly does it prove? That he lied about being at the party, or perhaps just doesn't remember being at the party? Yeah, the natural chain of thought is that if Clemens lied about this, what else did he lie about, but this doesn't prove that he materially lied about using performance enhancers, which is the focus here. To this party evidence, Clemens could come back and say, "Well it was 10 years ago, I've been to a lot of parties, so I didn't remember going to this one." So you'd have prove that he knew he lied, and that could be a hard thing to actually prove, even if he all believe he did knowingly lie under oath.

            I just don't see Clemens going to jail over this party thing, despite with the geniuses at ESPN (aka MTV Sports, or perhaps E Sports) would like us to think. For jail to be a real possibility here, some evidence, beyond just McNamee, is going to have to come to fore that corroborates that Clemens did use performance enhancers.

            he will probably never go to jail. he will probably never get into the hall of fame either. so either way he loses.

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            • #36
              in the article about the guy on the '04 sox who was juicing i'm taking all bets that it was foulke

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              • #37
                What cracks me up about this whole case right now is that from the beginning Clemens' attoney, Rusty Hardin, has stated that he, without any doubt, believes that his client is telling the truth. Now with all the information coming out slamming Roger's credibility I wonder if, when he puts his head on his pillow at night, does he still buy Roger's stories? Or, does he now think he's supporting a liar but it's too late to back out now. I wonder if he's sat down with Roger and said, "Roger, come on man, the gig is up. It's time to come clean. You've thrown your wife under the bus, one of your best friends under the bus, your nanny under the bus and others. Your story keeps unraveling at every turn. When is enough going to be enough?"

                You have to wonder how these lawyers live with themselves? What do they tell themselves so they can sleep at night?
                ?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by MyDogSparty View Post
                  What cracks me up about this whole case right now is that from the beginning Clemens' attoney, Rusty Hardin, has stated that he, without any doubt, believes that his client is telling the truth. Now with all the information coming out slamming Roger's credibility I wonder if, when he puts his head on his pillow at night, does he still buy Roger's stories? Or, does he now think he's supporting a liar but it's too late to back out now. I wonder if he's sat down with Roger and said, "Roger, come on man, the gig is up. It's time to come clean. You've thrown your wife under the bus, one of your best friends under the bus, your nanny under the bus and others. Your story keeps unraveling at every turn. When is enough going to be enough?"

                  You have to wonder how these lawyers live with themselves? What do they tell themselves so they can sleep at night?
                  you know, even if he did ask roger that, (assuming roger is guilty as sin) dont you think that perhaps roger has convinced himself that he is telling the truth? Its basically the big lie theory.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ipitch View Post
                    Guys,

                    I posted the picture as a joke. It's not from the party. I didn't think anyone would think it was an actual picture from the party.
                    D'oh!!! :blush: I'm so smart. S-m-r-a-t. Smart.

                    (hangs head and walks out of thread with red face)

                    -Lou
                    "He can get 10 hits in five at-bats." -Joe Torre, exasperated after seeing Ichiro hit a routine ground ball to shortstop and cross first with an infield single.
                    sigpic

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rockin500 View Post
                      you know, even if he did ask roger that, (assuming roger is guilty as sin) dont you think that perhaps roger has convinced himself that he is telling the truth? Its basically the big lie theory.
                      I do agree that through some twisted logic Roger has convinced himself that he's telling the truth. I guess what I'm saying is that Roger seemed to convince his attorney beyond any doubt that he's telling the truth before this all began. Knowing what he knows now, does Clemens' attorney still believe him? If so, how? I realize that we'll never know the answer to the question but I think it's funny. I mean the lawyer was even duped by Clemens and now he's got to stick with this guy.
                      ?

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                      • #41
                        How much more are we supposed to believe. The more he fights the deeper the hole gets. Is there a picture of Roger at that party? Can they prove it was that party on that day and even if they do that in no way proves that Roger was involved in a discussion about steroid use with Conseco.

                        The point is that Roger said he was not there and McNamee said he was and now Roger's attorney says OH, maybe he did stop by when he hears there is supposedly a picture of Roger at that party.

                        Roger said that Andy Pettite misheard him in that conversation in 1999 or 2000. Roger didn't say he used steroids he was speaking of his wife, Andy heard wrong. Then we find out that his wife was injected with steroids in 2002 or 2004. That was after his comments to Andy in 1999 or 2000.

                        He's getting buried, it looks like the rat McNamee is telling the truth and Roger is telling all the lies.

                        There is no way out forget about jail, Roger is fighting for his reputation, he can't save it the more he talks the worse he looks.
                        Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-27-2008, 06:55 AM.

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                        • #42
                          This whole question about what Clemens' lawyers really think and feel makes me think of the larger question of how most who earn their living via MLB really think and feel.

                          It is like the recent interview with Tony LaRussa where he still vehemently defends McGwire and insists on no PED use by McGwire. Sometimes I read things stated by people like LaRussa on these matters and am amazed at the insult to my intelligence and wonder if most MLB people just think most fans are stupid and have no right to learn all they can about the truth. It seems like a mentality of "we want you to keep spending more and more of your money and supporting the game but stay the heck out of our private business because you have no rights beyond just spending your money and blindly supporting the game".

                          To me there seems to be sense of arrogant entitlement permeated throughout modern era MLB. It doesn't surprise me that any player's lawyer would just continue to repeat a stale line that becomes increasingly ridiculous because we fans are supposed to just except what we are given and told without questioning with no rights beyond that.

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                          • #43
                            [QUOTE=SHOELESSJOE3;1123792]
                            He's getting buried, it looks like the rat McNamee is telling the truth and Roger is telling all the lies.


                            This statement says a lot about the modern game. McNamee seems to be a "Rat". So what is he doing being allowed in MLB clubhouses anywhere near players? Why does a player continue to keep him around even after he has been fired by an MLB club? What kind of sport allows "rats" to be involved? Where there is one "rat" there are usually more, no?

                            Modern era MLB is increasingly looking more and more like prohibition era Chicago. The bad part is that MLB has for too many years just been unwilling to deal with its problems because of all the money that keeps pouring in and what the fans don't need to know, (in MLB's opinion) won't hurt them. Question is, is that "them" the fans or is it MLB?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BoweryBoys View Post
                              Sometimes I read things stated by people like LaRussa on these matters and am amazed at the insult to my intelligence
                              Exactly - that's one of the biggest points about Clemens and the others - just a complete lack of respect for the game's fans.

                              Anyway, LaRussa saying that is just the complicit exonerating the accused.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by bkmckenna View Post
                                Exactly - that's one of the biggest points about Clemens and the others - just a complete lack of respect for the game's fans.

                                Anyway, LaRussa saying that is just the complicit exonerating the accused.
                                Bingo, you got it exactly right. I wish more fans understood this or even cared. I guess some fans just want to follow the game and accept whatever they are told and given. Then you have the "casual fans" and the "chicks dig the long ball" mentality that, IMHO, has no place or business in MLB. Makes one wonder if we would even be having any of these type discussions if the idea of the over the fence HR was never invented. Just think if doing that was never more then just a foul ball. To me the HR is an overrated aspect of the game anyway.

                                Anyway, "chicks do dig the long ball" and the HR is what most MLB officials thought that most of us stupid fans really care about so they turned a blind eye for years. Now some like LaRussa still act insulted when the subject is brought up like the fans have no right to complain or question the HR numbers of someone like McGwire. Just keep buying tickets and spending your money but keep your nose out of "our business".

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