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Photo Evidence might exist that Clemens was at the Party

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  • Old Sweater
    replied
    I turned 55 in October so I get $1 Rockpile seats this year instead of the $4 they previously were.

    That is about $7 total counting a round trip light rail ticket, which drops you off a few blocks from Coors Field. Can't beat it with a stick.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by bkmckenna View Post
    There are frustrations in the game - I agree:

    1) High cost to attend a game - but that's in most of the sports. There are bargains to be found if you're willing to travel to minor league or independent lg games.

    I paid $5.25 for a hot dog this weekend at a Maryland basketball game. If I had gone to a Towson game though, it would have been a lot cheaper.

    2) High salaries - I believe the talent should get their fair share of the revenue. But, I no longer can side with a bunch of millionaires when trouble or complaints arise.

    3) Merchandising costs - team and merchandising stores are ridiculous. Sorry, but no mere baseball cap is worth $20+. No to mention the price of other products. Though I've bought my share of $20 hats, I have found some very nice caps from Wal Mart for $5 and elsewhere under for $10-15.

    4) Arrogant and condescending players and management - but that's everywhere not just sports.

    5) I personally believe the home run actually kills the excitement of the game. Bam the rally is over - time to reset. To me, nearly every other aspect of the game is more exciting. This is not to say though that I wouldn't want my team to build a lead in any way possible.

    6) "Roids are a blight on the game - as much a question mark on the integrity of the game as game-fixing. Clemens and Bonds' continued denials though we know otherwise are also disheartening. But, we'll get over it.

    I don't personally believe the players owe use anything - especially autographs as this is one of the biggest fraud industries in the country. And, I know personally from managing restaurants that people are ignorant and unrelenting to celebs in seeking them.

    I might at times rant against some of this stuff, but I've never ranted against the game itself and I don't see me doing so. I get great enjoyment from it so I'll be watching. Though, I don't really attend that many ML games. It's a lot cheaper and hassle free to watch ML games on TV and drive to the local high school, college or amateur fields. There are also about 6 minor league clubs within an hour's drive.
    Pretty much the same take here. I don't attend as many MLB games as I once did. Only 90 miles from Toronto so I go to see a couple of games a year, usually the Yanks. Buffalo has a great minor league park and I'll go to a dozen games a year with some friends and treat my one or two nephews. Best seat in the house 15 bucks, Monday games 7.00 bucks gets you a good seat. Thats all I want, nothing like a night at the ball game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian McKenna
    replied
    There are frustrations in the game - I agree:

    1) High cost to attend a game - but that's in most of the sports. There are bargains to be found if you're willing to travel to minor league or independent lg games.

    I paid $5.25 for a hot dog this weekend at a Maryland basketball game. If I had gone to a Towson game though, it would have been a lot cheaper.

    2) High salaries - I believe the talent should get their fair share of the revenue. But, I no longer can side with a bunch of millionaires when trouble or complaints arise.

    3) Merchandising costs - team and merchandising stores are ridiculous. Sorry, but no mere baseball cap is worth $20+. No to mention the price of other products. Though I've bought my share of $20 hats, I have found some very nice caps from Wal Mart for $5 and elsewhere under for $10-15.

    4) Arrogant and condescending players and management - but that's everywhere not just sports.

    5) I personally believe the home run actually kills the excitement of the game. Bam the rally is over - time to reset. To me, nearly every other aspect of the game is more exciting. This is not to say though that I wouldn't want my team to build a lead in any way possible.

    6) "Roids are a blight on the game - as much a question mark on the integrity of the game as game-fixing. Clemens and Bonds' continued denials though we know otherwise are also disheartening. But, we'll get over it.

    I don't personally believe the players owe use anything - especially autographs as this is one of the biggest fraud industries in the country. And, I know personally from managing restaurants that people are ignorant and unrelenting to celebs in seeking them.

    I might at times rant against some of this stuff, but I've never ranted against the game itself and I don't see me doing so. I get great enjoyment from it so I'll be watching. Though, I don't really attend that many ML games. It's a lot cheaper and hassle free to watch ML games on TV and drive to the local high school, college or amateur fields. There are also about 6 minor league clubs within an hour's drive.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoweryBoys
    replied
    The points that Tommybaseball make are excellent and very valid. Actually, I did make a conscious decision a few years ago to stop supporting the game in any way and have not bought one ticket nor purchased any MLB merchandise in many years. (I actually stopped going to games quite sometime ago, around 2000, when I decided that the price of tickets and parking just got to be beyond what is worth paying to see people running around playing a game. Heck I can now buy a whole season, or at least a half-season, of some of my all-time favorite classic TV shows for less money and get a lot more entertainment value for my money watching Ness chase the bad guys or Dr. Richard Kimble avoid the relentless pursuit of Lt. Gerard.)

    Anyway, I just didn't want to bring up the idea of myself, at least as one fan, deciding the game was not worth supporting anymore because that only opens one up for all kinds of abuse about being on "a moral high horse" and other invalid silly comments. Also, I believe that all have the right for themselves to make their own decision on whether or not to support the game without influence from others. I still love and study the past history of the game, which is partly why I am a member here, and am satisfied with that.

    The fact remains that some fans of the game are just getting fed up and becoming increasingly less interested, or see the game as not worth their time. At the same time, the game makes new fans for many various reasons, not the least of which are those who actually think that 4-6 HRs a game and 14-10 scores are the ideal. Nothing used to make me shake my head in frustration more then the new fans who had thought the game was "boring" but in recent years now think it is great due to all the "offense" in the modern game. MLB will always laugh all the way to the bank with the sucker's money because there will always be a fresh supply of people who are only fans on that level and do not care about the game on any deeper level then that.

    Leave a comment:


  • tommybaseball
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyK View Post
    Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

    - Sir Walter Scott
    Pitched for the '86 Astros, right? Threw that scuff ball. Seriously, well put.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyK
    replied
    Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

    - Sir Walter Scott

    Leave a comment:


  • tommybaseball
    replied
    Originally posted by BoweryBoys View Post
    This whole question about what Clemens' lawyers really think and feel makes me think of the larger question of how most who earn their living via MLB really think and feel.

    It is like the recent interview with Tony LaRussa where he still vehemently defends McGwire and insists on no PED use by McGwire. Sometimes I read things stated by people like LaRussa on these matters and am amazed at the insult to my intelligence and wonder if most MLB people just think most fans are stupid and have no right to learn all they can about the truth. It seems like a mentality of "we want you to keep spending more and more of your money and supporting the game but stay the heck out of our private business because you have no rights beyond just spending your money and blindly supporting the game".

    To me there seems to be sense of arrogant entitlement permeated throughout modern era MLB. It doesn't surprise me that any player's lawyer would just continue to repeat a stale line that becomes increasingly ridiculous because we fans are supposed to just except what we are given and told without questioning with no rights beyond that.
    I took the liberty of hi-lighting a few of the points you made. The fact that fans continually support Major League Baseball despite the manner in which they are treated, from sky-rocket ticket prices that exclude blue-collar fans, to non-involvement with fans including avoidance of autograph seekers, to a type of rollerball game whose stats are bogus because of PED's proves that no matter how much fans moan and complain on boards like this, or call in to the shills at radio stations like WFAN, MLB will maintain status-quo and continue to laugh all the way to the bank.
    The only way to make your voice heard is to stop going, stop buying merchandise and stop watching MLB, a far-fetched plan to say the least.
    People who complain and continue to support the game are stupid and deserve what they get- a continuous, figuratively symbolic bashing in the head and wallet with a Louisville Slugger.
    I won a few office bets in 2005 by sticking to my guns. I lasted the entire season with no withdrawl. I believed at the time that steps were taken to clean up the game, or at least infuse a sense of fear in the players about getting caught. I watched again for the last 2 seasons, hoping from the $5.00- ROW W, Section 34 (which was closer to my dinner plate on the other side of the Bronx than home plate) that what I was watching had some semblance of a real game.
    Well, fooled me twice- SHAME ON ME! Here's my head! Whack it!

    The only way I go back this time is if they go along with Jeter's suggestion.
    This time, I want blood!

    Leave a comment:


  • JerseySoxFan19
    replied
    i wonder if they had dirty movies, hehe

    Leave a comment:


  • ipitch
    replied
    That must've been a heck of a party. Ten years later and people are still talking about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoweryBoys
    replied
    Originally posted by bkmckenna View Post
    Exactly - that's one of the biggest points about Clemens and the others - just a complete lack of respect for the game's fans.

    Anyway, LaRussa saying that is just the complicit exonerating the accused.
    Bingo, you got it exactly right. I wish more fans understood this or even cared. I guess some fans just want to follow the game and accept whatever they are told and given. Then you have the "casual fans" and the "chicks dig the long ball" mentality that, IMHO, has no place or business in MLB. Makes one wonder if we would even be having any of these type discussions if the idea of the over the fence HR was never invented. Just think if doing that was never more then just a foul ball. To me the HR is an overrated aspect of the game anyway.

    Anyway, "chicks do dig the long ball" and the HR is what most MLB officials thought that most of us stupid fans really care about so they turned a blind eye for years. Now some like LaRussa still act insulted when the subject is brought up like the fans have no right to complain or question the HR numbers of someone like McGwire. Just keep buying tickets and spending your money but keep your nose out of "our business".

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian McKenna
    replied
    Originally posted by BoweryBoys View Post
    Sometimes I read things stated by people like LaRussa on these matters and am amazed at the insult to my intelligence
    Exactly - that's one of the biggest points about Clemens and the others - just a complete lack of respect for the game's fans.

    Anyway, LaRussa saying that is just the complicit exonerating the accused.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoweryBoys
    replied
    [QUOTE=SHOELESSJOE3;1123792]
    He's getting buried, it looks like the rat McNamee is telling the truth and Roger is telling all the lies.


    This statement says a lot about the modern game. McNamee seems to be a "Rat". So what is he doing being allowed in MLB clubhouses anywhere near players? Why does a player continue to keep him around even after he has been fired by an MLB club? What kind of sport allows "rats" to be involved? Where there is one "rat" there are usually more, no?

    Modern era MLB is increasingly looking more and more like prohibition era Chicago. The bad part is that MLB has for too many years just been unwilling to deal with its problems because of all the money that keeps pouring in and what the fans don't need to know, (in MLB's opinion) won't hurt them. Question is, is that "them" the fans or is it MLB?

    Leave a comment:


  • BoweryBoys
    replied
    This whole question about what Clemens' lawyers really think and feel makes me think of the larger question of how most who earn their living via MLB really think and feel.

    It is like the recent interview with Tony LaRussa where he still vehemently defends McGwire and insists on no PED use by McGwire. Sometimes I read things stated by people like LaRussa on these matters and am amazed at the insult to my intelligence and wonder if most MLB people just think most fans are stupid and have no right to learn all they can about the truth. It seems like a mentality of "we want you to keep spending more and more of your money and supporting the game but stay the heck out of our private business because you have no rights beyond just spending your money and blindly supporting the game".

    To me there seems to be sense of arrogant entitlement permeated throughout modern era MLB. It doesn't surprise me that any player's lawyer would just continue to repeat a stale line that becomes increasingly ridiculous because we fans are supposed to just except what we are given and told without questioning with no rights beyond that.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    How much more are we supposed to believe. The more he fights the deeper the hole gets. Is there a picture of Roger at that party? Can they prove it was that party on that day and even if they do that in no way proves that Roger was involved in a discussion about steroid use with Conseco.

    The point is that Roger said he was not there and McNamee said he was and now Roger's attorney says OH, maybe he did stop by when he hears there is supposedly a picture of Roger at that party.

    Roger said that Andy Pettite misheard him in that conversation in 1999 or 2000. Roger didn't say he used steroids he was speaking of his wife, Andy heard wrong. Then we find out that his wife was injected with steroids in 2002 or 2004. That was after his comments to Andy in 1999 or 2000.

    He's getting buried, it looks like the rat McNamee is telling the truth and Roger is telling all the lies.

    There is no way out forget about jail, Roger is fighting for his reputation, he can't save it the more he talks the worse he looks.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-27-2008, 06:55 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MyDogSparty
    replied
    Originally posted by rockin500 View Post
    you know, even if he did ask roger that, (assuming roger is guilty as sin) dont you think that perhaps roger has convinced himself that he is telling the truth? Its basically the big lie theory.
    I do agree that through some twisted logic Roger has convinced himself that he's telling the truth. I guess what I'm saying is that Roger seemed to convince his attorney beyond any doubt that he's telling the truth before this all began. Knowing what he knows now, does Clemens' attorney still believe him? If so, how? I realize that we'll never know the answer to the question but I think it's funny. I mean the lawyer was even duped by Clemens and now he's got to stick with this guy.

    Leave a comment:

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