infield fly question

[Gregory Pratt]

Let's say Team A has a shift on a hitter and there's a potential force at third with less than two outs.

Second baseman is in right field.

There's a pop fly, that should be caught with ease. Hit to the second baseman.

Could an umpire call infield fly on that?

[west coast orange and black]

the umpire calls infield fly when the ball could ordinarily have been caught by an infielder*.
but to rule so, the umpire must first take note of where the infielders are positioned.

say a player hits a pop-up to the third base bag, but because a shift had been deployed there is no defender at third, and the nearest defender (at short) vacated his position to cover second on a steal attempt (bonehead move, but just go with it). the ump can not call infield fly because there was no defender who would have with ordinary effort caught the ball.
i have seen an infield fly rule called when the ball was caught by an outfielder. this may occur as long as an infielder could have easily handled the ball.

*there are other factors, of course

[bluezebra]

Without all the ifs, ors, maybes, hypotheticals, here's the rule:

An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule. When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare "Infield Fly" for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare "Infield Fly, if Fair." The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul. If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball. If a declared Infield Fly falls untouched to the ground outside the baseline, and bounces fair before passing first or third base, it is an Infield Fly. On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder_not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire's judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately. When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05 (L). The infield fly rule takes precedence.

The answer to your question is YES! The IFR is in effect.

Bob

[bluezebra]

the umpire calls infield fly when the ball could ordinarily have been caught by an infielder*.
but to rule so, the umpire must first take note of where the infielders are positioned.

say a player hits a pop-up to the third base bag, but because a shift had been deployed there is no defender at third, and the nearest defender (at short) vacated his position to cover second on a steal attempt (bonehead move, but just go with it). the ump can not call infield fly because there was no defender who would have with ordinary effort caught the ball.
i have seen an infield fly rule called when the ball was caught by an outfielder. this may occur as long as an infielder could have easily handled the ball.

*there are other factors, of course

i have seen an infield fly rule called when the ball was caught by an outfielder. this may occur as long as an infielder could have easily handled the ball.


Not true. If the outfielder has positioned himself in the infield, the IFR is in effect. No matter where the 'regular' infielders are.

Bob

[west coast orange and black]

^^
i do not understand your "not true", bluezebra.

i have seen an infield fly rule called when the ball was caught by an outfielder, so your response is not to that.

are you saying that an infield fly can be called no matter where the "regular" infielders are?
if yes, i don't get it.
if no one is originally positioned nor can get to where the ball lands safely, how could it be determined if the ball would have been caught with ordinary effort?

re the outfielder positioned in the infield thing:
are you saying that an infield fly rule is called simply because he is positioned in the infield? your response reads that way to me. but, what if the outfielder is standing near first, and the fly ball is close to third? why would the outfielder positioned in the infield warrant an infield fly rule ("If the outfielder has positioned himself in the infield, the IFR is in effect")?

[digglahhh]

^^
i do not understand your "not true", bluezebra.

i have seen an infield fly rule called when the ball was caught by an outfielder, so your response is not to that.

are you saying that an infield fly can be called no matter where the "regular" infielders are?
if yes, i don't get it.
if no one is originally positioned nor can get to where the ball lands safely, how could it be determined if the ball would have been caught with ordinary effort?

re the outfielder positioned in the infield thing:
are you saying that an infield fly rule is called simply because he is positioned in the infield? your response reads that way to me. but, what if the outfielder is standing near first, and the fly ball is close to third? why would the outfielder positioned in the infield warrant an infield fly rule ("If the outfielder has positioned himself in the infield, the IFR is in effect")?

Remember that the positional assignments are only functional titles we give to the players in order to score the game and communicate efficiently. There are no rules, about how to arrange your defenders on the diamond (well, a few, but they aren't really relevant for this convo). So, there is an infield and an outfield - an empirical geo-spatial distinction. There's also the terms, "infielder" and "outfielder" which are, essentially, arbitrary (practical) distinctions.

At the end of the day, and I think this is what Bob is saying too, the IFR refers more to where on the field the ball is hit than it does to who (which fielder) the ball is hit to. If the ball is hit 6 feet behind 2B, the call of the IFR is not influenced by which player (2B, SS, or CF) is best positioned to make the play. The "infield" in the IFR is the "geographic" term - obviously there's some leeway, as the IF isn't considered to end abruptly and definitively at the lip of the grass.

[bluezebra]

^^
i do not understand your "not true", bluezebra.

i have seen an infield fly rule called when the ball was caught by an outfielder, so your response is not to that.

are you saying that an infield fly can be called no matter where the "regular" infielders are?
if yes, i don't get it.
if no one is originally positioned nor can get to where the ball lands safely, how could it be determined if the ball would have been caught with ordinary effort?

re the outfielder positioned in the infield thing:
are you saying that an infield fly rule is called simply because he is positioned in the infield? your response reads that way to me. but, what if the outfielder is standing near first, and the fly ball is close to third? why would the outfielder positioned in the infield warrant an infield fly rule ("If the outfielder has positioned himself in the infield, the IFR is in effect")?

BY "not true", it means just what I wrote. If the outfielder is positioned in the infield area, the IFR is in effect. No matter where the 'regular' infielders are positioned. If you can't understand that simple statement, you have a problem.

Bob

[west coast orange and black]

many thanx for your input, digglahhh.

i understand what you are saying about where on the field the ball is hit than to whom.
will you please describe how an umpire assess if the ball could be caught with ordinary effort? i think that this is the hiccup.

also, will you please describe why an infield fly rule is called when an outfielder is positioned in the infield area?
(i am unsure of the meaning of "infield area" here. could it be substituting for "infield"?)

[bluezebra]

many thanx for your input, digglahhh.

i understand what you are saying about where on the field the ball is hit than to whom.
will you please describe how an umpire assess if the ball could be caught with ordinary effort? i think that this is the hiccup.

also, will you please describe why an infield fly rule is called when an outfielder is positioned in the infield area?
(i am unsure of the meaning of "infield area" here. could it be substituting for "infield"?)

Have you always had a reading comprehension problem? Or just don't know much about baseball.

"also, will you please describe how an umpire assess if the ball could be caught with ordinary effort? i think that this is the hiccup."

Basically, 'ordinary effort' means that the fielder in position to make the catch is facing home plate. If he is moving away from the plate, and makes the catch like Jerry Rice used to, that's NOT ordinary effort.

Bob

[west coast orange and black]

according to the definition provided, an outfielder positioned in the infield is considered to be an infielder for the purposes of an infield fly ruling.
i can not locate the wording in the definition that states that an infield fly rule is in effect merely because an outfielder is positioned in the infield .

i agree that "ordinary effort" essentially means that the fielder in position to make the catch is facing home plate. but at both home parks for the san francisco giants i have seen the infield fly rule not called because, in the judgment of the umps, the ball would have required more than ordinary effort because of tricky, gusty winds.

in the end, isn't an infield fly ruling a judgment call?