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  • #46
    Originally posted by cardsfanatic View Post
    Ichiro hasn't hit better over here than in Japan. Just FYI. Also, how do you explain the plethora of other Japanese players that were dominant in Japan coming over here and being woefully average or below?
    I hope you're not including So Taguchi is your "Japanese players that were dominant in Japan" list.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
      EDIT: In hindsight, that was really a stupid thing to say. Call it a reflex. I don't REALLY think that NPB is a minor league compared to any minor league team in the States. That's foolish. What I do realize is that players who aren't good players over her go over there and succeed (like Alex Cabrera and Tyrone Woods). It may be a matter of playing time; it may be a matter of smaller ballparks, who knows? What is certain, though, is that there is some kind of significant difference between the two major leagues.
      what I would argue is that the type of ballplayer I prefer...players that don't strikeout too much and make good contact...are what Japan produces. Why do the American players succeed when they get there? because they are still in the mindset of American baseball where you swing as hard as possible damn the consequences. Thus you get Tuffy Rhodes who is hitting home runs at an alarming pace and striking out more. Tuffy Rhodes put up some amazing stats in Japan, but who would you rather have...Tuffy Rhodes or Hideki Matsui?

      and add to that who has been more successful in America ...So Taguchi or Tuffy Rhodes?

      So Taguchi has actually had a higher average in MLB than in Japan....and his career MLB average is something like 60 pts higher than Rhodes'

      now look at Taguchi's stats in Japan...its not like he was a star
      "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

      -Bill James

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      • #48
        Originally posted by cardsfanatic View Post
        Ichiro hasn't hit better over here than in Japan. Just FYI. Also, how do you explain the plethora of other Japanese players that were dominant in Japan coming over here and being woefully average or below?
        The same way i'd explain the plethora of minor leaguers that dominate that level and then are average or below average in the majors. It happens.

        I think i'd agree with what most of the experts have to say on the subject -- the NBP is probably in between AAA and MLB. What say you?
        Originally posted by Domenic
        The Yankees should see if Yogi Berra can still get behind the plate - he has ten World Series rings... he must be worth forty or fifty million a season.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Westlake View Post
          The same way i'd explain the plethora of minor leaguers that dominate that level and then are average or below average in the majors. It happens.

          I think i'd agree with what most of the experts have to say on the subject -- the NBP is probably in between AAA and MLB. What say you?
          There is also a difference between the American League and the National League as well. We too often lump them both together as "MLB" as they are equal in quality. They are not.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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          • #50
            Originally posted by cardsfanatic View Post
            he's not the real deal, yet. Period.
            I'm not really part of this conversation, but a minor qualm here.

            He MAY be the real deal, you just don't know it yet and are not willing to give him that title. But that does not mean he isn't the real deal.

            Babe Ruth was the real deal before his hit 10 HR's (let alone714) ...people just didn't know it yet - doesn't mean it isn't true.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by cardsfanatic View Post
              I find it hard to believe you went to college, I really do.
              I have a J.D. as well! Scary huh?

              Although it's funny of all the players I mentioned you pick only the Cub, heh. Basically every Cub player is a saint, right? And you imply _I'M_ the biased one.
              Yet I didn't call you out on your inclusion of D Lee or Aramis Ramirez....


              But anyways, now that I went back and looked at that thread, you did clarify your position in subsequent posts regarding the reason you posted that list.
              sigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by wrigleybum View Post
                I hope you're not including So Taguchi is your "Japanese players that were dominant in Japan" list.
                Of course I am! He's the best player ever! He's a cardinal baby! And the only other Japanese phenom to ever grace the MLB!

                /might as well play the part, I guess
                Bleeding Cardinal Red since 1985
                In the stands for every home playoff game since then -- 2006 and 2011 were well worth the wait!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Westlake View Post
                  The same way i'd explain the plethora of minor leaguers that dominate that level and then are average or below average in the majors. It happens.

                  I think i'd agree with what most of the experts have to say on the subject -- the NBP is probably in between AAA and MLB. What say you?
                  I'd agree with that assessment.
                  Bleeding Cardinal Red since 1985
                  In the stands for every home playoff game since then -- 2006 and 2011 were well worth the wait!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by OleMissCub View Post
                    I have a J.D. as well! Scary huh?



                    Yet I didn't call you out on your inclusion of D Lee or Aramis Ramirez....


                    But anyways, now that I went back and looked at that thread, you did clarify your position in subsequent posts regarding the reason you posted that list.
                    did you get that education in the south...because if you did then it doesn't mean much....hehe....jk
                    "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                    -Bill James

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by sturg1dj View Post
                      did you get that education in the south...because if you did then it doesn't mean much....hehe....jk
                      hoho-hehe, 15th ranked law school in the nation, lawlz!!!
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by OleMissCub View Post
                        hoho-hehe, 15th ranked law school in the nation, lawlz!!!
                        is that in the Confederacy or the real nation?


                        and why not a better school? 15 isn't really that great...haha just bustin' your balls
                        "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                        -Bill James

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by cardsfanatic View Post
                          Of course I am! He's the best player ever! He's a cardinal baby! And the only other Japanese phenom to ever grace the MLB!

                          /might as well play the part, I guess
                          Haha, I have a friend who is a big Cardinal fan who loves So Taguchi for no reason...I called him up immediately after he dropped a routine fly against the Cubs today.

                          TBH, I have no idea how Taguchi's numbers were in Japan. I do know that the Cards signed him for a million (I think I'm right), and obviously Fukudome cost a lot more than that, so I assume Fukudome has had much better stats in Japan then many of the other players who moved across the Pacific. I have no stats to back this up though so...

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by wrigleybum View Post
                            Haha, I have a friend who is a big Cardinal fan who loves So Taguchi for no reason...I called him up immediately after he dropped a routine fly against the Cubs today.

                            TBH, I have no idea how Taguchi's numbers were in Japan. I do know that the Cards signed him for a million (I think I'm right), and obviously Fukudome cost a lot more than that, so I assume Fukudome has had much better stats in Japan then many of the other players who moved across the Pacific. I have no stats to back this up though so...
                            Not much of a difference. What I have on Taguchi.

                            ------------AB-----Ba.----Slg------OBA-----Hrs
                            MLB--------960----.281---.399------.331-----16
                            Japan-----4094----.277---.387------.333-----67

                            Don't recall exactly, if memory serves me right a significant difference with Ichiro, not hugh but he did do better in Japan. Will have to check him out.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              A couple of MLB players who went to Japan and did quite well.
                              Randy Bass 1977-1982 in MLB but only 130 games played Twins, Royals, Expos, Padres AND Rangers. Small number of games but how much ability could he have shown, no one kept him.

                              In Japanese baseball 1986 he hit.389, slugged .777 and 47 home runs. Not sure but I believe that 389 is the highest single season mark in all of Japanese baseball. In 1985 he hit 54 home runs, I think that came in 130 games.


                              Ralph Bryant with the Dodger in 1985-86-87 and only 150 at bats.
                              Hit 34 home runs in 74 games in 1988 in Japan.
                              In Japan 1988-95. 2980 at bats-259 home runs- AB/HR ratio 11.50
                              Had 3 home runs in one game 5 times.

                              Tony Solaita.
                              MLB 1968-79, Yanks, Royals, Angels, Blue Jays and Expos, 1316 at bats.
                              One 3 homer game in MLB.
                              Don't know how well or how long he was in Japanese Baseball but he did have a couple of big games.
                              4 consecutive home runs in 1990 over two games.
                              Sept.4 one home run and Sept.5 three home runs

                              Also 4 home runs in one game, April 20 1980.
                              He hit 3 consecutive. Then HBP. Final at bat home run number 4.

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                              • #60
                                when talking about how strong Japan baseball is I don't believe it helps to list American players that played 20-30 years ago. Instead we can use more current players like Tuffy Rhodes. Using Bass as an example doesn't really work though since I would assume that Japanese baseball has evolved a bit in the last 20 years.



                                this is not toward the person who listed the stats of Bass and Solaita...its more for the whole discussion
                                "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                                -Bill James

                                Comment

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