Thoughts on Buckner's 'Return' to Fenway

[Jim Vaz]

I just wanted to get a feel for what people thought about Bill Buckners return to Fenway and his unofficial forgiveness from the fans in Boston?

I guess I have sort of mixed feelings on the whole thing. For one I was happy to see that he finally got his day and that weight seem to be lifted off of his shoulders.

On the other side of the coin I kind of feel it was an odd move on the part of the Red Sox to bring him back now. For over 20 years you banish the guy, never to be brought up in that city again and never to be recognized by the Sox, and only after winning 2 World titles in the span of 4 years do you then finally forgive a guy? I understand Boston fans are in the mood now to forgive and forget ad thats great, but had the Red Sox organization brought him back 10 years ago, even 5 years ago before the curse was ended it would have looked better on everyones part.
Thats just my opinion.

Either way I'm so happy for the guy. You can see how emotional he is even today about it. You're talking about something that happened 22 years ago, and yet it was fairly obvious that it still bothered him like it happened last week. He really took a beating from everyone in Boston, everyone in the country for it, when in reality the real persons to blame would have been Schiraldi and Stanley. Just happy for him.

[TonyK]

I just wanted to get a feel for what people thought about Bill Buckners return to Fenway and his unofficial forgiveness from the fans in Boston?

I guess I have sort of mixed feelings on the whole thing. For one I was happy to see that he finally got his day and that weight seem to be lifted off of his shoulders.

On the other side of the coin I kind of feel it was an odd move on the part of the Red Sox to bring him back now. For over 20 years you banish the guy, never to be brought up in that city again and never to be recognized by the Sox, and only after winning 2 World titles in the span of 4 years do you then finally forgive a guy? I understand Boston fans are in the mood now to forgive and forget ad thats great, but had the Red Sox organization brought him back 10 years ago, even 5 years ago before the curse was ended it would have looked better on everyones part.
Thats just my opinion.

Either way I'm so happy for the guy. You can see how emotional he is even today about it. You're talking about something that happened 22 years ago, and yet it was fairly obvious that it still bothered him like it happened last week. He really took a beating from everyone in Boston, everyone in the country for it, when in reality the real persons to blame would have been Schiraldi and Stanley. Just happy for him.

You can also blame the manager for using a gimpy legged 1B who was injured in the late innings. I forgave Buckner immediately since it was his bat that helped the team make it to the World Series that year. And wasn't the game tied up when the ground ball was hit to him?

[Pete Rose Rounding Third]

Yes the game was tied. And from what I understand, McNamara usually replaced Buckner in the late innings. And they still could have won game seven. Some even say that Buckner was in no position to make the play on Wilson even if he had gloved it.

Buckner is a lot less culpable than McNamara, Schiraldi, and Stanley, in that order.

[Steve Jeltz]

You can also blame the manager for using a gimpy legged 1B who was injured in the late innings. I forgave Buckner immediately since it was his bat that helped the team make it to the World Series that year. And wasn't the game tied up when the ground ball was hit to him?

Yes it was. Everyone seems to believe the Sox were ahead when the groundball was hit to Buckner. It was already tied thanks to Bob Stanley's wild pitch. How come nobody mentions Stanley's role in the game? Or Jim Rice jogging into an out at home early in the game?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Yes it was. Everyone seems to believe the Sox were ahead when the groundball was hit to Buckner. It was already tied thanks to Bob Stanley's wild pitch. How come nobody mentions Stanley's role in the game? Or Jim Rice jogging into an out at home early in the game?

It won't matter, it's over but...............was that really a wild pitch.

Poor quality on this one but it can be seen that the catcher, if I recall Gedman is flat footed, never turned his body on that ball to his left. Hard to see here but take my word for it, that is as far off the plate that the ball was thrown, where you can see his glove. Was the catcher crossed up, I don't know. "100 Years of The World Series" is the video this was taken from. You have to see it in real time video, could have been called a a passed ball, although off the plate the catcher got plenty of glove on the ball.

[Cajun Cardinal]

Always thought Buckner was the scapegoat, like Bartman was to the Cubs.

When your team doesn't win need to find someone to target and shift all that blame/hurt/pain onto.

[iPod]

I find the entire situation repulsive. Buckner's role these last twenty years as the nonsensical scapegoat of the 1986 World Series was always an absolute disgrace, and the people who bought into it, who made this poor man the Goldstein toward which they could channel all the self-righteous self-pity to which they were never entitled in the first place, owe Buckner an apology. But now to validate the label by "forgiving" him... No one was in a position to "forgive" Buckner of anything, but if "Red Sox Nation" insisted, they could have at least done so before they got their precious championship. Bringing him back to Fenway has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness; it doesn't have anything to do with Buckner at all. I'm extremely disappointed he agreed to take part.

[Steve Jeltz]

It won't matter, it's over but...............was that really a wild pitch.

Poor quality on this one but it can be seen that the catcher, if I recall Gedman is flat footed, never turned his body on that ball to his left. Hard to see here but take my word for it, that is as far off the plate that the ball was thrown, where you can see his glove. Was the catcher crossed up, I don't know. "100 Years of The World Series" is the video this was taken from. You have to see it in real time video, could have been called a a passed ball, although off the plate the catcher got plenty of glove on the ball.

No, Gedman does not deserve a pass for his role in this game. Gedman appeared setup a bit on the outside half of the plate expecting Stanley to work Mookie Wilson away. Instead, Stanley's pitch was down and inside and Mookie landed on his chest jumping out of the way. Gedman, expecting an outside pitch, was out of position to get his body in front of the ball and made a futile attempt to throw his glove to knock down the pitch. My impression from watching that pitch several times was that Stanley and Gedman were crossed up. No excuse for a pitcher and catcher not to be on the same page during a critical situation. Wild pitch or passed ball, doesn't matter, the ball got through allowing the run the score.

As a footnote, the next spring, Stanley and Gedman were pointing fingers and blaming each other over who was at fault for that pitch. It's amazing that people forget it was that pitch that tied the game.

[steve rogers]

I find the entire situation repulsive. Buckner's role these last twenty years as the nonsensical scapegoat of the 1986 World Series was always an absolute disgrace, and the people who bought into it, who made this poor man the Goldstein toward which they could channel all the self-righteous self-pity to which they were never entitled in the first place, owe Buckner an apology. But now to validate the label by "forgiving" him... No one was in a position to "forgive" Buckner of anything, but if "Red Sox Nation" insisted, they could have at least done so before they got their precious championship. Bringing him back to Fenway has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness; it doesn't have anything to do with Buckner at all. I'm extremely disappointed he agreed to take part.

I agree with 99% of what you said here. I was glad that he went back for himself. I really think it helped heal is own wounds from the years of abuse from stupid sportswriters and stupid fans.

Scott

[SamtheBravesFan]

I agree with 99% of what you said here. I was glad that he went back for himself. I really think it helped heal is own wounds from the years of abuse from stupid sportswriters and stupid fans.

Scott

I think this is right. The impression that I've always had is that Buckner did lay some blame on himself, at least for committing the error the ended the game. Any other blame was put on him by an outside influence.

[blacksilverfan12]

I haven't actually seen the footage, but it sounds like it went well. Although it does seem strange to do it now, given the Red Sox's current success

[SHOELESSJOE3]

No, Gedman does not deserve a pass for his role in this game. Gedman appeared setup a bit on the outside half of the plate expecting Stanley to work Mookie Wilson away. Instead, Stanley's pitch was down and inside and Mookie landed on his chest jumping out of the way. Gedman, expecting an outside pitch, was out of position to get his body in front of the ball and made a futile attempt to throw his glove to knock down the pitch. My impression from watching that pitch several times was that Stanley and Gedman were crossed up. No excuse for a pitcher and catcher not to be on the same page during a critical situation. Wild pitch or passed ball, doesn't matter, the ball got through allowing the run the score.

As a footnote, the next spring, Stanley and Gedman were pointing fingers and blaming each other over who was at fault for that pitch. It's amazing that people forget it was that pitch that tied the game.

Thats how I started my previous post, doesn't matter it happened but too many just accept the wild pitch story. Even if crossed up it appeared that Gedman just reached across expecting to just catch that ball. I wasn't in his position so I don't know exactly what he was thinking, looked to me like he could have put more effort into the catch and besides he got plenty of ball in the mitt.

Your second paragraph, I was not aware that later they tried to shift blame.

[KCGHOST]

Buckner got a nice reception from the BoSox faithful. Buckner booted the ball which means he has to take some of the blame for that fiasco, but he several co-conspirators in crime, particularly McNamara.

I think it shouldn't be overlooked that with two recent World Series championships the Nation was more willing to be forgiving than if the Curse was still going.

[hellborn]

I find the entire situation repulsive. Buckner's role these last twenty years as the nonsensical scapegoat of the 1986 World Series was always an absolute disgrace, and the people who bought into it, who made this poor man the Goldstein toward which they could channel all the self-righteous self-pity to which they were never entitled in the first place, owe Buckner an apology. But now to validate the label by "forgiving" him... No one was in a position to "forgive" Buckner of anything, but if "Red Sox Nation" insisted, they could have at least done so before they got their precious championship. Bringing him back to Fenway has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness; it doesn't have anything to do with Buckner at all. I'm extremely disappointed he agreed to take part.

What remarkably obtuse posts by you and Jim Vaz!!
Buckner banished?!?!? He played for the Bosox in '87 AND 1990...he signed with the team as free agent at the end of his career!!! Of his own free will!!! He was not "banished" from Boston in the slightest. He wasn't much of a hitter anymore and was released, but the team sure didn't have to bring him back, and they did it anyway.
I don't know a serious Bosox fan who ever blamed Buckner for the defeat...there are always idiots who are going to boo players for stupid reasons, but Bill was hardly reviled by Bosox fans in general.
Buckner's problem was that the local and national media fixated on him as the one cause of the collapse in '86, because they could show a short clip or a photo of the ball going through his legs to explain everything. Nothing is ever complicated or requires thought in the mass media, anything that requires more than a paragraph or one to two main characters is not worth discussing.
Billy Buck lived far from Boston and New England, yet he and his family constantly heard about the Wilson grounder...this was not the work of Bosox fans, but the people who learned from USA Today and ESPN that Buckner=failure.
It was a bad play and it hurt, but any real Bosox fan knows the entire painful sequence, and knows that that grounder was only a small part of that disastrous inning. And knows that Billy Buck could barely walk then, but was still out there playing, even when McNamara should have had the common sense to get Stapleton in there to play some D at first.
Buckner was invited to celebrate the '04 win, but chose to not attend...his choice, and I don't blame him. I was thrilled to see him at the game Tuesday and cheered out of respect and admiration...not pity or "forgiveness". I did feel that it was unfair for Buckner to be scapegoated by the media the way he was, but he should not be an object for anybody's pity. He played in the majors for 20 years...save pity for people who lose their homes and families to war, or don't have enough to eat.
I think that it was obvious that the experience was cathartic for Buckner, and believe that he reveled in the enthusiastic reception...40,000 people cheering for you, how many of us will ever experience that. I'm sure he would be shattered to find that people on BBF were disappointed in him.

[Jim Vaz]

Hellborn, I may have used the word "banished" wrong. You're right, he did play several years for Boston after the 86 Series.
Obtuse is a strong word though and I'm pretty sure I know a little bit of the entire situation, THANK YOU!


By it I meant that he was basically held on the bottom of a guillotine by many fans and the mostly Boston and ESPN media who really took the whole play and ran with it for something that indeed was not all his fault. There were many other moving parts involved on that October night which led up to that play and the Sox loss in game 6.
But there is no way to sugarcoat it, the man was held for all the blame on it for years and took so much abuse on it for too long. I'm glad he was finally able to get his day and I'm glad the Sox recognized him, but all I was saying is that my feelings are mixed. Had the Sox done this for him 10 years ago and he accepeted, it would have looked better on everyones part.