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  • #31
    Originally posted by Old Sweater View Post
    He didn't have the good hands for the pitch in the dirt either. Like I said before, the Dodger pitchers weren't crying when they loss him when he was a young man. Posada can hit but the Yankees sure don't have him behind the plate with his Piazza like arm right now.
    They'll have to play him at catcher since they already have 3 other players who have no business playing in the field.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Old Sweater View Post
      Posada can hit but the Yankees sure don't have him behind the plate with his Piazza like arm right now.
      Well up till last year, Posada, with his Piazza like arm, was the starting catcher for the Yanks..

      Seriously, Posada is not all that better during his career at throwing out runners than Piazza...
      "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
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      • #33
        I remember some interview that Michael Kay had with Tommy Lasorda, who I think was responsible in one capacity or another with bringing Piazza up to the bigs. I remember that Piazza was first offered as a 1Bman, but the team didn't need a 1Bman. Later on, Piazza was offered as a catcher, and that's when he was accepted.

        From what I remember, before Lasorda was the MLB manager, he was an LA Dodger Minor League manager who'd prided himself on sending up lots of guys to the big club.

        From what I've seen or heard from him over his 7 years in Queens is that he worked the pitchers well, blocked the plate nicely. However, his two deficiencies were throwing out runners and fielding popups around the plate (those were always very amusing if you've seen any). His hitting is obviously well-known.

        In 2008, I don't see much reason to sign him for a high price, since there are other DHs who are younger and will likely hit much better, so I don't see the advantage. If he's asking for somewhere in the $1-2m range, then I can see him signing with a team like the Royals.
        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
        Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
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        • #34
          Originally posted by NYMets523 View Post
          First off, Steve Phillips is a complete *******.

          Second, he made a stink about moving to 1B because he never played the position his entire career. Yes, Piazza had a weak arm. However, there's more to catching than throwing out runners such as blocking the plate, calling a game, and managing a pitching staff which Piazza did well. If you want to bash him for not changing positions, Jeter deserves the same criticism.

          I personally believe Piazza should hang up the spikes. However, he could be a contributor for a team looking for a right handed bat to DH. I think the idea of the Reds signing him is completely stupid though and probably just a pipe dream of Baker's to add more veterans to a franchise that needs to rebuild.
          Well, Steve Phillips being a complete (insert very descriptive title here) isn't exactly a surprise for me. After he'd gotten Robbie Alomar at 2B, Mo Vaughn at 1B (despite his inability to run) then Jeromy Burnitz in RF (this was for the 2002 season), I figured that was his "creative" way of getting expensive new names onto the Mets, since they had absolutely no free agents after the 2001 season.

          I don't remember who the catchers were, but the Mets had built up some prospects at catching, and felt that they could use Piazza's offense at 1B instead of backstop. If the younger guys could contribute better at catching than could Piazza, then keeping him in the lineup as the 1Bman would've helped to me.

          If you're going to talk about Yankees, look at Yogi Berra. He was taught to catch by Bill Dickey and eventually took over for him. When Elston Howard came up in the 1960s, Yogi moved to the OF so Ellie could be the backstop. Remember that 1960 WS HR in Game 7? That was Yogi trying to catch it out there.

          Also, Joe DiMaggio, one of the most celebrated of all Yankees, was moved from CF to 1B by Casey Stengel. Why? Because The Ol' Perfesser thought that Joltin' Joe had lost a few steps out there, that's why.

          Ever heard of Johnny Bench? He's caught 1,742 games, has played 195 at 3B and 145 at 1B. Why would a move to another position be an insult to publicly complain about when two of the greatest catchers have already done this?

          As to Jeter, are you saying he should've moved to 3B? As has been discussed in the Yankee forum here, Alex has the better moves to his glove side and is considered the superior fielder. Therefore, moving Jeter to 3B, where his weakness to the glove side would've been quite glaring, would not be a smart move.

          I think that Piazza could contribute to an AL team that needs a decent RH bat who can be the bench catcher, but if he's not going to have a .800 OPS or at least 80 RBI (or the equivalent total had he played a full season), I don't see what the offensive advantage to him would be, since we're talking about the 2008 version of Mike Piazza.

          I wasn't bashing Mike Piazza for not moving. I just think that if your team asks you to move to a different position, you do so. After the Yanks traded RFer David Justice to the Mets for 3Bman Robin Ventura, opening up an infield spot, that allowed Mets Minor Leaguer, Alex Escobar, to be traded for Cleveland 2Bman Robbie Alomar. This moved the Mets' Edgar "Fonzie" Alfonzo from 2B to 3B. Fonzie, as he was called in the local press, complained publicly about the move, since he'd considered himself a 2Bman, not a 3Bman, but certainly not of the caliber of Alomar. Did he move to 3B as requested by the NY Mets? Yes he did, and Bobby Valentine was then the manager and Steve Phillips was then the GM.

          That's what I'd expected from Piazza. If Posada and his dead arm was asked to move to 1B, I'd expect him to move there, even though we've already got a few options at 1B.

          Regardless, I still think that Piazza was more interested in having the catchers' offensive title, and I think he should've worried more about the team's success than his offensive stats and/or where he plays. If your manager and/or your GM asks you to move, just move and get over it is my opinion, as done by Edgar Alfonzo in 2002, as I'd expect others to do, regardless of which team they happen to play for.
          Last edited by Mattingly; 04-17-2008, 07:47 PM.
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Baseball Guru View Post
            Well up till last year, Posada, with his Piazza like arm, was the starting catcher for the Yanks..

            Seriously, Posada is not all that better during his career at throwing out runners than Piazza...

            Posada still has a good enough arm and hands that a pitcher can throw a breaking ball with a runner on base. Plus with Posada the greyhounds ain't on auto pitot compared to Piazza.


            Posada

            808 SB/337 CS= 29% THROW OUT %

            PB 123/ WP 414/1365 GAMES=.39 A GAME

            Piazza

            1400 SB/423 CS=24% THROW OUT %

            102 PB/WP 356/1629 GAMES=.28 A GAME

            Johnny Bench

            610 SB/469 CS= 43% THROW OUT %

            94 PB/446 WP/1742 GAMES=.30 A GAME


            Look at the combined WP PB per game. To think that Piazza had better hands then Bench is moronic to me. Piazza's arm and hands was so bad that a pitcher about had to throw a fastball with a runner on base. Especially when Piazza was giving the signals. Not a good option for a pitcher or the club in close games.

            I do remember a Dodger pitcher stating that he could throw one in the dirt again after Piazza was traded to the Marlins. Perhaps a lot of that good game calling by Piazza was a forced hand. Good ol' #1 can get you out of a lot of trouble.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mattingly View Post
              I don't remember who the catchers were, but the Mets had built up some prospects at catching, and felt that they could use Piazza's offense at 1B instead of backstop. If the younger guys could contribute better at catching than could Piazza, then keeping him in the lineup as the 1Bman would've helped to me.
              Since we're looking back to the Phillips regime, it's very likely what ever "prospect" they had was nothing special. Besides, the Mets already had a 1B, John Olerud, who enjoyed 3 successful years with the Mets from '97 to '99. Why move Piazza from his position of catcher to 1B when they already had a very good 1B there?

              If you're going to talk about Yankees, look at Yogi Berra. He was taught to catch by Bill Dickey and eventually took over for him. When Elston Howard came up in the 1960s, Yogi moved to the OF so Ellie could be the backstop. Remember that 1960 WS HR in Game 7? That was Yogi trying to catch it out there.
              Piazza in the OF? He'd be an even greater liability there than at 1B. Also, Yogi Berra played several games in the OF as well as 3B before 1960. He wasn't completely new to it.

              Also, Joe DiMaggio, one of the most celebrated of all Yankees, was moved from CF to 1B by Casey Stengel. Why? Because The Ol' Perfesser thought that Joltin' Joe had lost a few steps out there, that's why.
              My knowledge of that era is limited but could that decision have had anything to do with a 19 year old by the name of Mickey Mantle?

              Ever heard of Johnny Bench? He's caught 1,742 games, has played 195 at 3B and 145 at 1B. Why would a move to another position be an insult to publicly complain about when two of the greatest catchers have already done this?
              I have heard of Johnny Bench. Unlike Piazza though, Bench was playing various positions from 1970 to 1983. From 1992 to 2003, Mike Piazza played 2 games at 1B; 2 innings to be exact.

              As to Jeter, are you saying he should've moved to 3B? As has been discussed in the Yankee forum here, Alex has the better moves to his glove side and is considered the superior fielder. Therefore, moving Jeter to 3B, where his weakness to the glove side would've been quite glaring, would not be a smart move.
              I was actually thinking of CF. I've read fans saying he should have moved to CF when A-Rod was acquired.

              I think that Piazza could contribute to an AL team that needs a decent RH bat who can be the bench catcher, but if he's not going to have a .800 OPS or at least 80 RBI (or the equivalent total had he played a full season), I don't see what the offensive advantage to him would be, since we're talking about the 2008 version of Mike Piazza.
              Look at the DH of some teams. Piazza would be an upgrade over Jason Kubel, Jose Vidro, or Johnny Gomes. If the Yankees didn't have so many players who are below-average fielders, they could use his services. They need a right handed bat in their lineup and I guarantee you he'd put up significantly better numbers than Shelly Duncan or Morgan Ensberg.

              I wasn't bashing Mike Piazza for not moving. I just think that if your team asks you to move to a different position, you do so. After the Yanks traded RFer David Justice to the Mets for 3Bman Robin Ventura, opening up an infield spot, that allowed Mets Minor Leaguer, Alex Escobar, to be traded for Cleveland 2Bman Robbie Alomar. This moved the Mets' Edgar "Fonzie" Alfonzo from 2B to 3B. Fonzie, as he was called in the local press, complained publicly about the move, since he'd considered himself a 2Bman, not a 3Bman, but certainly not of the caliber of Alomar. Did he move to 3B as requested by the NY Mets? Yes he did, and Bobby Valentine was then the manager and Steve Phillips was then the GM.
              A move from 2B to 3B is different than moving from catcher to 1B. Considering Piazza was an all-star player, the team isn't going to tell him to shut up and move as they would to a player like Fonzie (who was good but not the caliber of player Piazza was).

              Regardless, I still think that Piazza was more interested in having the catchers' offensive title, and I think he should've worried more about the team's success than his offensive stats and/or where he plays. If your manager and/or your GM asks you to move, just move and get over it is my opinion, as done by Edgar Alfonzo in 2002, as I'd expect others to do, regardless of which team they happen to play for.
              That's a bit unfair to be honest and shows disrespect to your player. Some guys are stubborn about moving. Hanley Ramirez is a great hitter but he doesn't want to move from SS. In fact, Joe Mauer is also refusing to move from catcher to 3B despite a concern with his knees.
              Last edited by NYMets523; 04-17-2008, 10:17 PM.
              "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

              "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

              "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

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              • #37
                The Paul Harvey version.

                To ease the stress on his deteriorating knees, Piazza began to split his time between catching and playing first base during the 2004 season, an experiment which was abandoned before the end of the season because of Piazza's defensive deficiencies.

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                • #38
                  I like Piazza. But we don't need him. Posada will be back. Molina and Moeller have been adequate in his place. Piazza truthfully should retire and wait for the call from Cooperstown which will eventually come. If he wants to play, let him go to the Reds.

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                  • #39
                    Too little too late. If this were going down 10 years ago, I'd say the Yanks would be on the right track.
                    WAR? Prove it!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by NYMets523 View Post
                      Since we're looking back to the Phillips regime, it's very likely what ever "prospect" they had was nothing special. Besides, the Mets already had a 1B, John Olerud, who enjoyed 3 successful years with the Mets from '97 to '99. Why move Piazza from his position of catcher to 1B when they already had a very good 1B there?
                      Mike Piazza was with the team from 1998-2005, and I remember his being asked to move being around 2002 after Olerud had already left the team. I don't remember the name of the prospect.
                      Piazza in the OF? He'd be an even greater liability there than at 1B. Also, Yogi Berra played several games in the OF as well as 3B before 1960. He wasn't completely new to it.
                      I never claimed that Piazza should go to the OF. I just mentioned that Yogi Berra had done this. I was referring to Mike Piazza playing 1B. Why was this so difficult, and why did he need to complain to the media? Edgar Alfonzo complained also, but at least he moved. That was the point I was making.
                      My knowledge of that era is limited but could that decision have had anything to do with a 19 year old by the name of Mickey Mantle?
                      I erred a tad, in that DiMag played one single game at 1B in 1950, and Mickey Mantle debuted in 1951. Link (please scroll down to "Fielding"). I believe that Mantle played RF in 1951 while DiMaggio still played CF. That was the only year that both played as Yankees, and they shared the OF duties.
                      I have heard of Johnny Bench. Unlike Piazza though, Bench was playing various positions from 1970 to 1983. From 1992 to 2003, Mike Piazza played 2 games at 1B; 2 innings to be exact.
                      That's why I thought that Piazza could've moved. Yogi and Bench moved, so why couldn't he?

                      I'd also mentioned Edgar Alfonzo, who did move from 2B to 3B, and that was a very public move, since the very rare trade between the Yanks and Mets (Yanks' RF David Justice for Mets' 3B Robin Ventura) resulted in an OF spot being opened up, allowing the Robbie Alomar trade.
                      I was actually thinking of CF. I've read fans saying he should have moved to CF when A-Rod was acquired.
                      Oh, I've heard that also. We had Bernie in 2004, but many (such as yours truly) felt that Bernie should've been in LF anyway, since he'd also lost a step out there. When he was faster (he'd been a HS runner back in Puerto Rico), he got around much better, but slowed and missed a few fly balls that he just *HAD* to catch.

                      I think that the "Jeter-to-CF" thing has been debated just as much longer than the threads about him moving to SS. Needless to say, even if I will, I think that his moving to LF would've been much more beneficial had he made the move. Bernie, who is way up on the list of beloved Yankees (on the same plateau reserved for Yogi, Gehrig and my namesake), for all his skills, however, slightly diminished, at least knows the OF. Since a CFer has to take command out there for gapper hits, that "I got it" thing could work wonders.

                      I also think that Jeter's never run much in the outfield, and his primary asset as far as lateral moves is backing up. He's limited to the glove side, he gets criticized for the "jump throw" thing when the ball is to his right (with the jump throw meaning he's got his back to the mound, has to twist and throw to 1B), but for high-arching popups behind him, he's a genius at getting to those. There's a lot more room to cover in the cavernous Yankee Stadium LF than you'd have at SS. In fact, some say that LF is harder there than RF, which would be the opposite for Fenway.
                      Look at the DH of some teams. Piazza would be an upgrade over Jason Kubel, Jose Vidro, or Johnny Gomes. If the Yankees didn't have so many players who are below-average fielders, they could use his services. They need a right handed bat in their lineup and I guarantee you he'd put up significantly better numbers than Shelly Duncan or Morgan Ensberg.
                      Since I only have the 2007 stats for Mikey, I'll compare those to 2008 stats for the guys you'd mentioned.

                      Jason Kubel, DH/RF, MIN: .269 BA, .772 OPS, 3 jacks. Not bad.

                      Jose Vidro, DH, SEA: .222 BA, .649 OPS, 2 jacks. I should get some varsity guys at the local HS (or a college freshman) to see if they can do better than this guy.

                      Jonny Gomes, DH/RF, TAM: .294 BA, .933 OPS, 2 jacks. I don't think that Mikey's an improvement here.

                      Mike Piazza, DH, OAK: .275 BA, .727 OPS, 8 jacks over 83 games.

                      Since Hideki Matsui can easily be our part-time DH (since Damon is usually in LF), as well as could Jason Giambi (when he's not playing 1B), I don't think that Duncan or Ensberg would factor in more than being bench guys, aren't the everyday DH. Adding Piazza to a lineup that for many years (since Giambi got here in 2002) has had an excess of DHs, would seem useless I think. I don't even think the Yanks have a full-time DH, whereas Ortiz is Boston's. Anyone who's hurt can DH, as does Posada now, as did Jeter when his quad acted up, and after he'd recovered from the separated shoulder around 2002 or '03.

                      Hideki Matsui, DH/LF, NYY: .319 BA, .923 OPS, 3 jacks. No bad!

                      Jason Giambi, 1B/DH, NYY: .125 BA, .619 OPS. I see that his can of "spinach" from the past hasn't served him well this season.
                      A move from 2B to 3B is different than moving from catcher to 1B. Considering Piazza was an all-star player, the team isn't going to tell him to shut up and move as they would to a player like Fonzie (who was good but not the caliber of player Piazza was).
                      I realize that. This is why Jeter didn't want to move either. Besides, Joe Torre was never going to ask Jeter to move, since if you read the NYC (and surrounding area) papers, that was obvious.

                      I wouldn't say to just "Shut up, Mikey, and move", but at least try to do this. Had he at least tried it for a month, I would've understood. You're right, though, some of the superstar players like Piazza or Jeter do get certain "privileges" not deemed to the regular players.
                      That's a bit unfair to be honest and shows disrespect to your player. Some guys are stubborn about moving. Hanley Ramirez is a great hitter but he doesn't want to move from SS. In fact, Joe Mauer is also refusing to move from catcher to 3B despite a concern with his knees.
                      What's the situation in Florida with Hanley Ramirez moving? Who does he have to move for? Isn't he one of the best young defensive shorts out there?

                      As to Minnesota's Mauer, I think that the hot corner isn't something for those who have knee problems, since it's almost as athletically demanding as SS. However, it's more punishing on one's knees than any other position I can think of. He should try 1B.

                      I think that to make the bare-handed catch, you really need to have good range, be able to pick up bunts coming at you from a different angle as catcher, and you have to make both the long throw to 1B, and the 5-4-3 around-the-horn play.
                      Last edited by Mattingly; 04-18-2008, 03:33 AM.
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Old Sweater View Post
                        Posada still has a good enough arm and hands that a pitcher can throw a breaking ball with a runner on base. Plus with Posada the greyhounds ain't on auto pitot compared to Piazza.


                        Posada

                        808 SB/337 CS= 29% THROW OUT %

                        PB 123/ WP 414/1365 GAMES=.39 A GAME

                        Piazza

                        1400 SB/423 CS=24% THROW OUT %

                        102 PB/WP 356/1629 GAMES=.28 A GAME

                        Johnny Bench

                        610 SB/469 CS= 43% THROW OUT %

                        94 PB/446 WP/1742 GAMES=.30 A GAME
                        To think that Piazza had better hands then Bench is moronic to me. .

                        The Bench remark is not towards me is it? Not sure why he was brought up in the convo unless someone else brought him up... There is no comparison between Piazza and Bench when it comes to D..

                        My thing is that Posada is not all that much better at throwing out runners (5%) than Piazza and Piazza's bat makes up for his shortcomings there....
                        "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                        ~~Al Gallagher


                        God Bless America!

                        Click here to see my baseball tribute site!

                        Click here to see the best pitcher NOT in the HOF!

                        sigpic

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mattingly View Post
                          Mike Piazza was with the team from 1998-2005, and I remember his being asked to move being around 2002 after Olerud had already left the team. I don't remember the name of the prospect.
                          Exactly, Olerud was gone when Piazza was asked to make the move and I think the prospect was Mike Jacobs...
                          "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                          ~~Al Gallagher


                          God Bless America!

                          Click here to see my baseball tribute site!

                          Click here to see the best pitcher NOT in the HOF!

                          sigpic

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Baseball Guru View Post
                            Exactly, Olerud was gone when Piazza was asked to make the move and I think the prospect was Mike Jacobs...
                            Correct, and Jacobs was considered 'special'. The fact is, whether Met fans like to admitt it or not, Piazza was wrong for not learning another position. It was clear to anyone who followed the Mets that he knew his legacy was based on his offensive production as a catcher. Thus rendering his insistance on catching as selfish.

                            The references to Berra and Bench are appropriate. Both were far superior to Mike defensively, (which is a gross understatement), yet they changed positions. Ironicly, had they not, Piazza would not now hold offensive records for catchers.

                            It's fine to like a good player, as all Met fans did with Mike. But blindly defending all criticism of him is as ill informed and ludicrouss as the disscussions that roll on about Jeter being a 'great' defensive player.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mattingly View Post
                              Mike Piazza was with the team from 1998-2005, and I remember his being asked to move being around 2002 after Olerud had already left the team. I don't remember the name of the prospect.
                              I thought you meant he should have moved to 1B when they acquired him.

                              I never claimed that Piazza should go to the OF. I just mentioned that Yogi Berra had done this. I was referring to Mike Piazza playing 1B. Why was this so difficult, and why did he need to complain to the media? Edgar Alfonzo complained also, but at least he moved. That was the point I was making.
                              Yogi Berra playing the OF doesn't have anything to do with Piazza. And Piazza did play 68 games at 1B in 2004. So like Fonzie, he complained by played there anyway.

                              That's why I thought that Piazza could've moved. Yogi and Bench moved, so why couldn't he?
                              As I had said though, they were playing multiple positions early on in their careers. Piazza played 2 innings at 1B until 2004 when they tried it.

                              Oh, I've heard that also. We had Bernie in 2004, but many (such as yours truly) felt that Bernie should've been in LF anyway, since he'd also lost a step out there. When he was faster (he'd been a HS runner back in Puerto Rico), he got around much better, but slowed and missed a few fly balls that he just *HAD* to catch.

                              I think that the "Jeter-to-CF" thing has been debated just as much longer than the threads about him moving to SS. Needless to say, even if I will, I think that his moving to LF would've been much more beneficial had he made the move. Bernie, who is way up on the list of beloved Yankees (on the same plateau reserved for Yogi, Gehrig and my namesake), for all his skills, however, slightly diminished, at least knows the OF. Since a CFer has to take command out there for gapper hits, that "I got it" thing could work wonders.

                              I also think that Jeter's never run much in the outfield, and his primary asset as far as lateral moves is backing up. He's limited to the glove side, he gets criticized for the "jump throw" thing when the ball is to his right (with the jump throw meaning he's got his back to the mound, has to twist and throw to 1B), but for high-arching popups behind him, he's a genius at getting to those. There's a lot more room to cover in the cavernous Yankee Stadium LF than you'd have at SS. In fact, some say that LF is harder there than RF, which would be the opposite for Fenway.
                              Sorry, but you're coming off as being hypocritical. You're explaining reasons why Jeter shouldn't have moved from SS to CF, but aren't considering how a move from C to 1B is on a guy like Piazza who, like Jeter, played his career at one position.

                              Since I only have the 2007 stats for Mikey, I'll compare those to 2008 stats for the guys you'd mentioned.
                              Kind of unfair to compare Piazza's 83 games from a season he missed half of because of a freak injury to less than 20 games. Look at the career lines of Gomes and Kubel. They do not suggest that they will maintain their solid hitting.

                              Since Hideki Matsui can easily be our part-time DH (since Damon is usually in LF), as well as could Jason Giambi (when he's not playing 1B), I don't think that Duncan or Ensberg would factor in more than being bench guys, aren't the everyday DH. Adding Piazza to a lineup that for many years (since Giambi got here in 2002) has had an excess of DHs, would seem useless I think. I don't even think the Yanks have a full-time DH, whereas Ortiz is Boston's. Anyone who's hurt can DH, as does Posada now, as did Jeter when his quad acted up, and after he'd recovered from the separated shoulder around 2002 or '03.
                              Adding Piazza now would just create more issues with the DH spot. If they didn't though and had to choose from Duncan, Ensberg, and Piazza to be their righty DH, the most productive option would be Piazza.

                              I wouldn't say to just "Shut up, Mikey, and move", but at least try to do this. Had he at least tried it for a month, I would've understood. You're right, though, some of the superstar players like Piazza or Jeter do get certain "privileges" not deemed to the regular players.
                              He did play 68 games at 1B in 2004.

                              What's the situation in Florida with Hanley Ramirez moving? Who does he have to move for? Isn't he one of the best young defensive shorts out there?
                              He's one of the worst defensive shortstops in the game. They want to move him because of how awful his defense is. After Cabrera was traded, they were considering moving him to 3B but he said he wouldn't move.

                              As to Minnesota's Mauer, I think that the hot corner isn't something for those who have knee problems, since it's almost as athletically demanding as SS. However, it's more punishing on one's knees than any other position I can think of. He should try 1B.
                              Except Justin Morneau is there. You're quick to say "he should move to X". You're not considering what players play those other positions.

                              I think that to make the bare-handed catch, you really need to have good range, be able to pick up bunts coming at you from a different angle as catcher, and you have to make both the long throw to 1B, and the 5-4-3 around-the-horn play.
                              Those throws are different because you can put yourself in position to throw. The throw to 1B isn't long. Throwing out runners you have to quickly transition from the crouch to a throwing stance.
                              "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

                              "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

                              "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Baseball Guru View Post
                                The Bench remark is not towards me is it? Not sure why he was brought up in the convo unless someone else brought him up... There is no comparison between Piazza and Bench when it comes to D..

                                My thing is that Posada is not all that much better at throwing out runners (5%) than Piazza and Piazza's bat makes up for his shortcomings there....
                                No, it wasn't anything you'd said earlier about Piazza's defense. I wasn't even criticizing this, since I'd mentioned him calling a good game, from what I've heard (must've been Al Leiter or someone else said this), and that he'd blocked the plate well. His deficiences, as I've mentioned in this thread, throwing out runners and catching popups near the plate (adventures suitable for the youtube generation seemed like a slight exagerration).

                                The Bench and Berra references was to both having played different positions. I don't know the reasoning why Bench moved, despite seeing once an ESPN SportsCenter on him and his then manager Sparky Lyle. However, he did play 3B and some 1B.

                                Yogi almost moved, but the reason for this was to allow Elston Howard, the first African-American Yankee player, to catch, and just as Bill Dickey (as you're obviously well aware) mentored Yogi, then Yogi in turn mentored Ellie.

                                I believe that in both Bench's and Yogi's case, the move came at the end of their storied careers, just like Cal Ripken, Jr moved from SS to 3B. Those came to allow others more youthful and thus more suitable to play that position to do so.

                                I won't say this in the Mets forum, but as I've mentioned earlier, I believe that this was so Piazza could get the most HRs as a catcher. He's got a great bat, I'll never deny him that, but if he gets a few more jacks while catching, he gets more "HRs as a catcher", not just the career total. It's my belief that Mike Piazza was fixated at this, at the expense of the team's benefit.

                                I don't expect him to just pick up and "git" to 1B like he's a total nobody, since he was definitely the Mets top superstar player while he was here. However, when he complained about not being given sufficient notice, then he didn't want to do it.

                                I think that since he's in the NL and can't DH, and his bat is too valuable to use as a pinch hitter, then 1B seems like the least stressful position re pivoting. I wouldn't guarantee you that he would be as good defensively at 1B as John Olerud, nor Keith Hernandez from the past, and a good-fielding 1Bman like Doug Mientkiewicz or Jose Pena is always a great thing. However, I think he could've made a very good effor to learn this, I would have had tons more respect for him as a "team-first company man", so to speak.

                                I won't say that I disrespect him, but I think I'd have held him to a higher level had he made that move. That's just my thoughts.

                                I'll try replying to NYMets523 later on.
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