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  • New Collusion cases and Bonds?

    I'm aware that this will likely stir a hornet's nest, but I'm certain that wea ll saw this story on the wires this morning:

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24491833/

    I'm thoroughly sick of Bonds at ths point. Why won't he take a hint and go away? Why does he insist on playing the victom in all of these problems he created for himself?
    I also think Fehr and Orza need to be more discriminating about wh they go to bat for publicly. There could well be collusion here, but everyone is missing the point that there were a bunch of old sluggers out there as free agents who all got passed over. If the union really wants to make a case of this, why not go to bat publicly on behalf of Piazza or Shawn Green, who have precious little of the baggage that Bonds or Sosa would bring into the debate?

  • #2
    Originally posted by MattD1972 View Post
    I'm aware that this will likely stir a hornet's nest, but I'm certain that wea ll saw this story on the wires this morning:

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24491833/

    I'm thoroughly sick of Bonds at ths point. Why won't he take a hint and go away? Why does he insist on playing the victom in all of these problems he created for himself?
    I also think Fehr and Orza need to be more discriminating about wh they go to bat for publicly. There could well be collusion here, but everyone is missing the point that there were a bunch of old sluggers out there as free agents who all got passed over. If the union really wants to make a case of this, why not go to bat publicly on behalf of Piazza or Shawn Green, who have precious little of the baggage that Bonds or Sosa would bring into the debate?
    They are investigating on behalf of Piazza as well as Kenny Lofton and a couple of others.

    As for Green, he retired after a narrow search of teams (he would only play on the west coast), so as a retired player, the union is not concerned about him.

    This whole collusion thing is garbage.

    Comment


    • #3
      Piazza is a 39 year old catcher who can't catch, run, or hit for power. He needs to find an AL team that lives in a hitters park.

      Lofton is a 41 year old CF with noticeably declining defensive skills as a CF and with modest power at the plate.

      Both of those guys are probably employable under the right circumstance, but the season will have to play out some more before those circumstances arise. They may also have to drop their salary expectations.

      Bonds is Bonds. A 43 year old guy who probably can still hit but has virtually no defensive value and tons of baggage. He would be a magnificent fit for the Yankees if they are willing to cut bait on Giambi and if Bonds would agree to play 1B. Outside of SF this guy has no good will and considerable enmity. Who wants to bring in a guy who will probably generate tons of criticism of management for doing it and a cascade of boos from his new home "fans".

      And I think most teams realize that the media, who is loudly wondering why teams that need a bat aren't signing him, will do an immediate 180 and crucify them for signing the guy who is the poster child for the PED's era.
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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      • #4
        Bonds would be a PR nightmare.

        I'm sure there's a good reason why Lofton has bounced around team to team over the years. I hope he makes it a race issue. Yippy!

        Comment


        • #5
          MattD1972: Why won't he take a hint and go away? Why does he insist on playing the victim in all of these problems he created for himself?

          what are you basing your assertions on, mattd?
          how has bonds assumed the role of victim?
          there is nothing in the story that leads to where you got.
          "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

          Comment


          • #6
            MattD1972: ...everyone is missing the point that there were a bunch of old sluggers out there as free agents who all got passed over.

            collusion is not about age or having luggage.
            collusion is about a concerted, secret agreement to defraud.

            collusion in this case is not about the actions of the players.
            collusion is about the actions of management.

            in this case, we know that the winter meetings included discussions of how to handle - what to do with - players named in the so-called mitchell report. it is reasonable to conclude that formal discussions by management from different teams pushes the collusion envelope.
            i understand each team deciding on their own what to do.
            i can not understand formal meetings on the topic.
            Last edited by west coast orange and black; 05-07-2008, 05:25 PM.
            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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            • #7
              kcghost:
              piazza and lofton are "probably employable" under the right circumstances, but bonds is not?

              we know what silences criticism and boos: a good show and offensive numbers. if bonds - ped poster boy or not - were to perform well the media's criticisms would fall upon deaf ears: the fans would be too busy cheering.
              "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BenHertz View Post
                Bonds would be a PR nightmare.

                I'm sure there's a good reason why Lofton has bounced around team to team over the years. I hope he makes it a race issue. Yippy!
                "Yippy!" That made me laugh out loud. It's unfortuante but it's also probably true.

                Scott
                I told you not to be stupid you moron.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MattD1972 View Post
                  I also think Fehr and Orza need to be more discriminating about wh they go to bat for publicly.
                  You have union officials confused with PR guys.

                  When you run a union, you look out for the interests of all of it's members, even if they're jerks.

                  I tend to doubt there is any collusion here, but management's denials ring pretty hollow in light of what many of the same people did in the late '80's. That's what happens when you do things like that, then lie about it. No one believes you, even if you eventually tell the truth.
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                  • #10
                    Not Quite the Case

                    You can't have collusion unless there is a collective want for the talent. None of these guys have that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ^^
                      a "collective" want?
                      "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by west coast orange and black View Post
                        kcghost:
                        piazza and lofton are "probably employable" under the right circumstances, but bonds is not?

                        we know what silences criticism and boos: a good show and offensive numbers. if bonds - ped poster boy or not - were to perform well the media's criticisms would fall upon deaf ears: the fans would be too busy cheering.
                        To a certain extent that is true. In the case of Barry Bonds, we have a very polarizing figure. It certainly worked in San Francisco. Bonds has always been a hero there. It is completely conceivable for another owner to not want the baggage associated with Barry. The Giants had a get out of jail free card in a sense, with being in the NL. If they were in the AL and could use Barry as a DH it would have been interesting to see how they justified not tendering him an offer, or if they would have decided to keep him.

                        The Giants were unwilling to bring him back to the one place he was loved.

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