Maple Banned?

[Phantom Dreamer]

Maple Bat info in MLB clubhouse

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https://twitter.com/20Hojo

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I have no idea what it will be about, may be interesting maybe not. Today Saturday at 5:00 or 5:30 eastern time, the Weather Channel has a program dealing with the making of baseball bats. The promo showed a Babe Ruth bat and then a scene with some trees. They may discuss different types of wood and the making of bats.

[west coast orange and black]

wcoab: mlb had talks a week or two ago to discuss maple bats.
does anyone know how that went?

update: the conference calls amounted to lip service by selig & co.

[Iron Peach]

I wonder what relation the increase of broken bats this year has to the decrease of offence compared to last year...

I really have no information on this at all, but I don't think it's in the relm of impossibility that they could be related...

[west coast orange and black]

^^
what evidence do you have that maple bats have improved player perfomance, or have not improved it?

whichever way you wanna go with that one, about half of the players currently use maple.

[Mattingly]

since first used, we have known that when maples break they snap. but it seems that there has been an increase in the number of bats breaking.
why are they breaking at the current rate?

How would one of your favorite players have done without the maple bats?

Other than you-know-who, which other players have turned from ash to maple?

[west coast orange and black]

sandlot: What's needed, I think, is to collect all the shattered bats and study them carefully for similarities in composition, density, origin, drying techniques, manufacturer, weight and, of course, diameter. They should also be checked to see if there are signs that the bat has been whittled down by someone subsequent to its manufacture.

an excellant starting point, sandlot.

at first i was convinced that the thin(ned) handles were the culprit, but now i am leaning towards wood quality and the complete process to make a bat.

mlb had talks a week or two ago to discuss maple bats.
does anyone know how that went?

[redlegsfan21]

Dunn switches to ash bats

CINCINNATI -- Adam Dunn has had it with his maple bats, and sentenced them to a lifetime of inactivity.
"I'm done," the Reds left fielder said on Tuesday. "I'm tired of them breaking all the time."

Bats made from maple wood have been a controversial topic in Major League Baseball this season. When maple bats break, they often shatter and send jagged pieces of wood in multiple directions that put people in danger. There has been a noticeable increase in bat explosions this season.

Broken maple bats have severely injured an umpire, a coach and at least one fan in 2008. The MLB and the Players' Association are currently evaluating the safety implications of maple bats before considering a course of action.

Dunn's reason behind the switch is mostly about product performance, but safety also figured into the equation.

"Maple is good, but whenever you have a hairline [break] and can't even see it and hit the ball good, and you know you hit it good, your bat explodes," Dunn said. "And it's a soft liner to second base and the pitcher is ducking. ... I don't want one of my bats sticking somebody in the head."

A lot of players made the switch to maple in recent years because they were considered more durable than ash, which chip and crack easier. Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. both switched to maple bats in 2005.

"This year, it seems a whole lot different," Dunn said.

Griffey had been using an ash bat in batting practice lately and was using an ash bat in Monday night's game, when he hit a walk-off two-run home run to beat the Pirates.

"That was the first at-bat I used it," Griffey said. "Earlier, I went in the cage before the game and swung it 20-30 times said, 'All right, this works.'"

Infielder Jeff Keppinger remains a user of maple bats and had no plans to use another product.

"The only reason why I use maple is because ash bats flake," Keppinger said. "I'm the type of guy where once I get a bat, I use the same bat for BP and the game. Once it breaks, then I get a new one. That's the thing with ash -- if it starts to break, you have to get a new one when you really don't want to. That's why I use maple. I don't use it for any other reason. They make bats the same size and same weight."

Dunn destroyed a maple bat during his final plate appearance of Friday's game at Cleveland. He popped up to the shortstop in the eighth inning, but thought it would be a better outcome at contact.

"The one I hit on the screws was in Cleveland against C.C. [Sabathia]," Dunn recalled. "I hit it right on the barrel. If it's cracked on the inside -- when you hit it, it explodes."

A bat representative visited Dunn in the Reds' clubhouse Tuesday. His new shipment of ash bats were expected to arrive on Wednesday or Thursday.

Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080701&content_id=3042052&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

[Old Sweater]

I don't know if it was maple or ash, but a spear wound up in short left field today in the Rockies/Tigers game.

[chokes14]

did anyone see giambi's bat get shattered today? and correct me if im wrong but doesn't he swing ash?
and banning maple will only create a shortage in bats. I play in a wood bat junior college league and everyone on our team used maple and we might have seen 3 bats explode all year. sure they break but they werent exploding

[stejay]

A hard ball is a part of the game. Always has been and always will be, an exploding bat is another issue. It's alot more dangerous and it's preventable.

I wasnt saying it should happen. The balls that is. But I have used Maple all my baseball life, as have everyone I know. No problems have risen. The only reason this is happening is because people are getting the fakes. They aere not made as good as quality ones, and are less dangerous.

[hellborn]

I have been thinking this for a while. If they can create a bat made from a material that has the same "bounce" at the sweet spot as a wooden bat whilst also being "dead" at the handle.
As you mentioned they would need to make sure the bat doesn't make that horrible "ping" noise. h

I just started using a composite softball bat that "cracks" something on the order of a wood bat. Louisville Slugger Voltage...got it for about 1/2 price at Sports Authority. I think they haven't been selling well because the colors are not very manly (yellow and bright red), but I've been loving it...much bigger sweet spot than the Mizuno Crush 2 I was using before. The Crush also had made a hollow thud when striking the ball, kind of like hitting with a PVC pipe.
I don't get quite the resounding crack that a good wood bat will make, but it's a lot better than "ping", "thud", or "clunk".
:applaud:

[sandlot]

Most studies have found Ash and Maple to perform very close together.

One of the big reasons for a lot of players going to Maple was the flaking in the barrels of Ash bats. Yes, Ash doesn't explode like Maple but the hard and soft grain come apart after repeated abuse. With Maple you don't have this problem. Most players were complaining their Ash bats weren't surviving BP so they switched.

Currently we are drying our wood differently than most other companies. We do this to put a little more flex into the handles of the Maple bats. This flex absorbs some of the energy transferred from the ball to the bat and hopefully helps prevent it from breaking as easy in the handle. The side effect is some players say our bats are soft.That is how we lost great players like Pujols, Upton, Howard and a few others. But I feel the gain we get in bats lasting longer outweighs some of the benefits of vacuum drying our wood. Not to say our bats don't break because I have seen many but hopefully not as soon as they could have.

In 2007 MLB instituted new rules for maximum and minimum handle thickness and weight ratio of wooden bats. The new rule for handles are bats may not be smaller than .845in diameter in the handle. This rule already needs to be revised since we currently don't make a handle smaller than .865 for fear of extreme breakage. The new weight ratio is -3.5oz, this probably needs to be dropped to -3oz or -2.5oz. A player can currently still order a 35in/31.5oz R161 which is made from basically balsa wood because the Maple you have to use to make that is extremely poor quality in terms of density.

I honestly don't know what is going to happen, I know MLB has done numerous studies but there are two obstacles to any worth while changes. First is the player's union, many players won't want to give up their Maple bats. Second, is the Emerald Ash Borer, a small insect that came from China on shipping crates and is currently destroying the Ash population in Michigan and Ohio. There are some reports it is already in Pennsylvania where most companies currently get their wood. Maybe another species of wood will have to be found...

I have been wondering why Bonds, whom I've watched more than probably any other player, rarely breaks his bats. If he breaks nine in a season, that's nothing given the number of times he makes contact over that period. I think BMH has hit on it with both the diameter point and, especially, the quality of the maple. Trees are as different as any other living thing, and anybody who works with wood -- as BMH can attest, I'm sure -- knows that the difference between one piece and the next can be huge. I also incline toward the handle being the culprit because of photos showing bats bending during a swing, even where there has been no contact made. It's just the strength and quickness of the batters placing stress on the handle as force is applied to move the bat head around. If contact occurs with a ball coming in the other direction, the opposing forces being applied to the handle at its thinnest point must be considerable. So I'm not sure banning all maple is the answer, although banning some maple might be. The same could be said of ash. What's needed, I think, is to collect all the shattered bats and study them carefully for similarities in composition, density, origin, drying techniques, manufacturer, weight and, of course, diameter. They should also be checked to see if there are signs that the bat has been whittled down by someone subsequent to its manufacture. Longer term, I'm willing to bet that one day not far off we will see composition bats, maybe bamboo if they can solve the handle issue, being used alongside the traditional one-piece bat. When the performace charteristics can be assured to be identical, for all intents and purposes, the argument against them goes away. Just my two cents.

[brewcrew82]

Its time that MLB pursue this in the name of the other bat issue which has been at hand for ages: aluminum bats. I would think that bat-makers would have the expertise to create safe and affordable composite bats which perform. MLB must be aware that such things are possible, so why don't they get on with the research? A good composite wood bat which sounds like wood (at least reasonably close to it), performs well for the players, and leaves everyone safe on the field and in the stands.

I have been thinking this for a while. If they can create a bat made from a material that has the same "bounce" at the sweet spot as a wooden bat whilst also being "dead" at the handle.
As you mentioned they would need to make sure the bat doesn't make that horrible "ping" noise. h

[brewcrew82]

NO. A batter deserves to use whatever he uses to bat with. Should the ball be banned, or replaced with foam, because the could hurt someone? No. Why should this be any different.

A hard ball is a part of the game. Always has been and always will be, an exploding bat is another issue. It's alot more dangerous and it's preventable.