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  • Greenies vs. Steroids

    For all the extremely anti-steroid people on this board, how is it any different than the widespread use of greenies over the past 50 years? I am very happy that both are now tested for, but i don't think it's right to use steroids as an excuse to invalidate records and keep people out of the hall of fame when many of the record-holders used Amphetamines.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Dasperp
    For all the extremely anti-steroid people on this board, how is it any different than the widespread use of greenies over the past 50 years? I am very happy that both are now tested for, but i don't think it's right to use steroids as an excuse to invalidate records and keep people out of the hall of fame when many of the record-holders used Amphetamines.

    This one again. If I were fooish enough and had no worry about possible damage to my body from long term use why not use the big one steroids.

    I could use greenies that give one a quick shot in arm, increase alertness although not proven. They stimulate the central nervous system, can cause insomnia, cause irritability, loss of appetite, weight loss in some cases, bring on euphoria that can be followed by fatigue.

    Or I could go to steroids, that shorten the recovery time from workouts and injuries, build skeletal muscle, increase all over muscle mass, increase body weight and overall strength.

    Greenies in no way are the overall equal of steroids, you can look that up. This is the choice today, track stars, body builders, football and baseball players.

    Both are terrible and I'm not saying that greenie use over the years was fine. Lets stop downplaying steroid use in todays game because the was trhe use of greenies over the years.

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    • #3
      the point is that if you have problem with one, you MUST have a problem with the other. otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rockin500
        the point is that if you have problem with one, you MUST have a problem with the other. otherwise you are just a hypocrite.
        There is a problem with both, I agree. I just don't get it when some say, why just steroids what about greenie use. Both should have been banned long ago but don't go easy on steroids just because there was another problem years ago. Also it just so happens that steroids is in the news today, thats the big story.

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        • #5
          SHOELESSJOE3: I could use greenies that give one a quick shot in arm... Or I could go to steroids...

          Both are terrible...


          not downplaying steroids at all, shoeless, but it can easily be argued that uppers, at the time, were the steroids of today. if steroids were around back when, would the players who used uppers have reached for steroids?

          to list the benefits of uppers against steroids is not the issue.
          of course steroids are more powerful in a variety of ways.

          but players have used whatever has been available to them for a long long time.
          "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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          • #6
            Originally posted by west coast orange and black
            SHOELESSJOE3: I could use greenies that give one a quick shot in arm... Or I could go to steroids...

            Both are terrible...


            not downplaying steroids at all, shoeless, but it can easily be argued that uppers, at the time, were the steroids of today. if steroids were around back when, would the players who used uppers have reached for steroids?

            to list the benefits of uppers against steroids is not the issue.
            of course steroids are more powerful in a variety of ways.

            but players have used whatever has been available to them for a long long time.
            I would think steroids if they were more readily available. I'm saying that today steroids is the one thats up front in the sports world, the topic of discussion. I haven't forgot about greenie use years ago, that was bad for the game just as I believe steroids to be bad.

            Same old story back then, MLB and the commissioner not willing to address, take action with the greenie problem. Same thing with the steroids in todays game, they kept on the blinders until the lid blew off.

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            • #7
              There is a problem with both, I agree. I just don't get it when some say, why just steroids what about greenie use. Both should have been banned long ago but don't go easy on steroids just because there was another problem years ago. Also it just so happens that steroids is in the news today, thats the big story.
              That wasn't what i was saying. My problem is with all the hatred that's being directed towards Bonds, Sosa, Palmeiro and the rest of the steroid users while the same people idolize guys who did the same kind of thing. The most common thing i'm seeing on the Bonds thread is people calling him a cheater and a disgrace to the game, when some of the most legendary figures in baseball's history cheated as well. Is Bonds worse because his cheating was more effective? As I said in the Bonds thread, when fame and fortune are at stake people are going to do whatever they can to get a leg up, and we shouldn't single out Bonds when so many have done it before.

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              • #8
                Greenies give a short term boost (often followed by a low). Steroids create much longer lasting changes and basically change the composition of the body. From greenies I'm more aware and energetic for a few hours, with steroids my body is permanently stronger, and my fast-twich muscles and reflexes will permanently will permanent react faster until I stop doing steroids.

                Greenies were cheating, but there is no way they can be equated to doing steroids. It's the difference between smoking marijuana and injecting heroin (except even that comparison is an understatement).

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                • #9
                  I agree that greenies were also used surreptitiously by players hoping to 'get an edge.' Greenies, amphetamines, uppers, whatever you want to call them...were the equivalent of several cups of coffee in pill form.

                  Brett Butler used to drink about 15 cups of coffee during a game. I suppose he thought he was getting an edge over other players, too. Or he just liked coffee.


                  Oh no, now I'm equating Barry Bonds with Brett Butler!
                  Anybody wanna debate taking Butler's bunt hits away from him?
                  "Someone asked me if I took steroids. I said, 'No. I had a contract with Wheaties.'"
                  --Bob Feller

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DoubleX
                    Greenies give a short term boost (often followed by a low). Steroids create much longer lasting changes and basically change the composition of the body. From greenies I'm more aware and energetic for a few hours, with steroids my body is permanently stronger, and my fast-twich muscles and reflexes will permanently will permanent react faster until I stop doing steroids.

                    Greenies were cheating, but there is no way they can be equated to doing steroids. It's the difference between smoking marijuana and injecting heroin (except even that comparison is an understatement).

                    aren't 'greenies' circa the 60's kind of like vivarin or a couple of jolt cola's?
                    Johnny
                    Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK you want to know the difference between Amphetamines and Anabolics?

                      Ask yourself these simple questions:
                      Your a baseball player at the beginning of a season and your at the peak of your natural abilites. Do you take amphetamines to get an edge?

                      No.

                      Is there any evidence that Amphetimens improves performance beyond a players peak?

                      No

                      The baseball season is only 40 games long over the same length of time. Would more or less players be taking amphetamines?

                      Less

                      Amphetamies are take by ballplayers to cheifly in responce to being run down during the season. A few RedBulls or some guarana extract can solve that problem pretty quick and legally. Their longterm side effects significantly outweight any possible competitive benifit to a baseball player.

                      Anabolics are take for one reason only. To deliberately gain a competative advantage over your opponents. Its quantifiable and documented.
                      Get out the Vote!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
                        This one again. If I were fooish enough and had no worry about possible damage to my body from long term use why not use the big one steroids.

                        I could use greenies that give one a quick shot in arm, increase alertness although not proven. They stimulate the central nervous system, can cause insomnia, cause irritability, loss of appetite, weight loss in some cases, bring on euphoria that can be followed by fatigue.

                        Or I could go to steroids, that shorten the recovery time from workouts and injuries, build skeletal muscle, increase all over muscle mass, increase body weight and overall strength.

                        Greenies in no way are the overall equal of steroids, you can look that up. This is the choice today, track stars, body builders, football and baseball players.

                        Both are terrible and I'm not saying that greenie use over the years was fine. Lets stop downplaying steroid use in todays game because the was trhe use of greenies over the years.

                        Wow, you are incredibly ignorant.

                        Amphetamines do much more than " increase alertness ".

                        They help you perform better, especially in athletics or physical jobs.

                        I used to pop greenies before every hockey game, because of it I was more alert, faster, and rarely got fatigued. That's performance enhancement at it's highest order.

                        I dont know if they help more than steroids or not, I've never taken steroids so I dont know, but I sure as hell know amphetamines do MUCH more than " increase alertness ".

                        Why the hell do you think stargell and mays were taken them for ? LOL

                        You might want to read this article about amphetamines, to learn more about it's rampant use and it's benefits.

                        http://www.hbo.com/costasnow/episode....01.story.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lllllllllllllllllll
                          Wow, you are incredibly ignorant.

                          Amphetamines do much more than " increase alertness ".

                          They help you perform better, especially in athletics or physical jobs.

                          I used to pop greenies before every hockey game, because of it I was more alert, faster, and rarely got fatigued. That's performance enhancement at it's highest order.

                          I dont know if they help more than steroids or not, I've never taken steroids so I dont know, but I sure as hell know amphetamines do MUCH more than " increase alertness ".

                          Why the hell do you think stargell and mays were taken them for ? LOL

                          You might want to read this article about amphetamines, to learn more about it's rampant use and it's benefits.

                          http://www.hbo.com/costasnow/episode....01.story.html
                          Is there really a need to call someone "incredibly ignorant?" Are you a scientific expert on the effect of greenies? You speak from your own experience with greenies, and I can tell you from my own experience with amphetamines that I found the effects to not be that dramatic at all. Each person is different, just because you used does not make you an expert, same as I'm not an expert based on my isolated experiences.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ESPNFan
                            OK you want to know the difference between Amphetamines and Anabolics?

                            Ask yourself these simple questions:
                            Your a baseball player at the beginning of a season and your at the peak of your natural abilites. Do you take amphetamines to get an edge?

                            No.

                            Is there any evidence that Amphetimens improves performance beyond a players peak?

                            No

                            The baseball season is only 40 games long over the same length of time. Would more or less players be taking amphetamines?

                            Less

                            Amphetamies are take by ballplayers to cheifly in responce to being run down during the season. A few RedBulls or some guarana extract can solve that problem pretty quick and legally. Their longterm side effects significantly outweight any possible competitive benifit to a baseball player.

                            Anabolics are take for one reason only. To deliberately gain a competative advantage over your opponents. Its quantifiable and documented.
                            There is no proof that steroids help baseball players either... steroids can also hinder a ballplayer, if his muscle become too big they wont be able to move as quickly, pitch as accurately or remain energized as long

                            If you think anyone who took steroids' records should be erased, then anyone who took greenies, or did anything against the rules' should also be erased....

                            Who is to say one is worse than the other? It's a judgement call

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 2Chance
                              I agree that greenies were also used surreptitiously by players hoping to 'get an edge.' Greenies, amphetamines, uppers, whatever you want to call them...were the equivalent of several cups of coffee in pill form.

                              Brett Butler used to drink about 15 cups of coffee during a game. I suppose he thought he was getting an edge over other players, too. Or he just liked coffee.


                              Oh no, now I'm equating Barry Bonds with Brett Butler!
                              Anybody wanna debate taking Butler's bunt hits away from him?
                              15 cups of coffee!!! man, now i know why we never saw him sitting on the bench between innings at dodger stadium.
                              Johnny
                              Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                              Comment

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