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Mike Schmidt - Cheater ?

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  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by BadKarma
    As far as I know, there is no such thing as "standard" steroids. Most people that use steroids and other PEDs regularly stack them. The other thing to remember is this: You can take all the steroids/PEDs you want, and get as bulked/pumped up as you want, but if you don't have the hand-eye coordination to hit the ball, they are not going to help to you. There is no special steroid combination that makes people hit HRs. What the steroids will do though is strengthen someone who can hit a baseball, and allow them to generate greater bat speed then what they normally could. That coupled with the skill to actually hit the ball into the air is what enables these guys to hit more HRs then what they could normally hit. If all you had to do was pop some steroids to become an elite ball player, you would see alot more people at that level.

    To answer the original poster though: Yes, Mike Schmidt should be considered a cheater. Did the greenies actually add anything to his already impressive skills? Not sure on that one, but he was attempting to gain an edge by using them, and he knew that he was not supposed to be using them.
    No question you're right about the steroids helping. The only thing you didn't hit on was the timing/hitters eye benefit of them. It's been mentioned for years and years, that you can't just take a muscle head out of a gym, hand him a bat, and expect him to hit 40 HR. Most understand it takes more than that. The point is, if you already have the...ah nevermind, you know what's up.

    About the "stacking" thing, maybe you're more studied on that that me. From people I've talked to, they start out simple, and then eventually they became psychologically addicted in a sense. It's like they just couldn't get big enough. So they take it up a notch from there. Even those guys though, didn't "stack" as many forms as Bonds allegedly did, including that cow steroid.

    Leave a comment:


  • BadKarma
    replied
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    It's important to remember too, that at least when talking about Bonds, it's not just standard steroids vs. Greenies. It's many forms that were stacked. He was truly supercharged.

    As far as I know, there is no such thing as "standard" steroids. Most people that use steroids and other PEDs regularly stack them. The other thing to remember is this: You can take all the steroids/PEDs you want, and get as bulked/pumped up as you want, but if you don't have the hand-eye coordination to hit the ball, they are not going to help to you. There is no special steroid combination that makes people hit HRs. What the steroids will do though is strengthen someone who can hit a baseball, and allow them to generate greater bat speed then what they normally could. That coupled with the skill to actually hit the ball into the air is what enables these guys to hit more HRs then what they could normally hit. If all you had to do was pop some steroids to become an elite ball player, you would see alot more people at that level.

    To answer the original poster though: Yes, Mike Schmidt should be considered a cheater. Did the greenies actually add anything to his already impressive skills? Not sure on that one, but he was attempting to gain an edge by using them, and he knew that he was not supposed to be using them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guerrero Mad Man 2715
    replied
    What happened to Baseball, this is horriffic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by ESPNFan
    The pick me up players look for from speed can be replaced by legal alternatives but, dispite what GNC will let you believe, nothing puts on mass like steroids.
    It's important to remember too, that at least when talking about Bonds, it's not just standard steroids vs. Greenies. It's many forms that were stacked. He was truly supercharged.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    Originally posted by west coast orange and black
    different, sure. but effective.

    do you agree, sultan, that it can be correctly argued that the players fought harder against uppers being included in the testing than steroids?
    Not really sure to tell you the truth. Are you basically asking if I think more players are on those than steroids?

    Leave a comment:


  • ESPNFan
    replied
    Not anywhere near as effective and if you look closely I believe caffine and guarana extract were not included as amphetamines. The pick me up players look for from speed can be replaced by legal alternatives but, dispite what GNC will let you believe, nothing puts on mass like steroids.

    Leave a comment:


  • west coast orange and black
    replied
    different, sure. but effective.

    do you agree, sultan, that it can be correctly argued that the players fought harder against uppers being included in the testing than steroids?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sultan_1895-1948
    replied
    MLB not being able to test for steroids has everything to do with the CBA, which has everything to do with the players. The fact that MLB couldn't test for it doesn't make it ok; steroids were mentioned as an illegal substance that was not to be used.

    Greenies might affect everyone differently, but from what I know about them, it's a temporary boost of energy and that's it. You come down even further when you're off them and you become mentally dependent on them just to funtion. They don't allow you to workout longer and harder or alter your chemical makeup. An entirely different level of cheating imo.

    Leave a comment:


  • ESPNFan
    replied
    Originally posted by rockin500
    it could easily give you more stamina for that game. maybe stamina is not the right word, but it does give you more pep and energy for some period of time. If you dont believe that, well, I'm sorry but I guess you dont believe men landed on the moon. If coffee and Nodoz can do that for ya, full blown speed will give ya that even more.

    I dont think there is any question whether speed gives ya a faster reaction time, its just how MUCH of a reaction time. (i dont think it gives you that much, myself, but still, i react better in the morning when I've had my coffee rather than without)

    breaking the law, yes. cheating, no.

    but HG's main point is that steroids were available to everyone just as speed was available to everyone so he cannot by definition be considered a cheat, because they were both not tested for and readily available.
    It gives you the impression and sensation that you have more energy and pep. Its a psicological effect and while that can give you the feeling that your not tired, your actually redlining your body thus increasing the amount of time that you need to recover from the physical activity. So you feel run down and you take them again and now your addicted. Now you begin to subject yourself to the longterm side effects of them, jitters, sleep disorders, reduced appitite, numbness in the extremities, tremors, irregular heartbeat, dehydration, psychotic episodes and death.
    The only benifit that you get from it is in reality a percived/illusionary one.

    Steve Blecher died from ephedra which is an amphetamine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elvis
    replied
    Originally posted by SideWalks Of Ny
    This actually has nothing to do with bonds.

    It was a simple question, schmidt used a drug that was banned in america, and admitted to it, so is he a cheater/felon ?

    Did he lie to a Grand Jury about it?

    Was he asked publicly while he was playing if he did and deny it?

    Is he a rude, arrogant, self-superior snot?

    No

    No

    No

    Leave a comment:


  • rockin500
    replied
    Originally posted by ESPNFan
    Can you please explain to all of us how a substance that raises your standing heart rate helps you react quicker, swing faster and most absurdly give you more stamina?
    it could easily give you more stamina for that game. maybe stamina is not the right word, but it does give you more pep and energy for some period of time. If you dont believe that, well, I'm sorry but I guess you dont believe men landed on the moon. If coffee and Nodoz can do that for ya, full blown speed will give ya that even more.

    I dont think there is any question whether speed gives ya a faster reaction time, its just how MUCH of a reaction time. (i dont think it gives you that much, myself, but still, i react better in the morning when I've had my coffee rather than without)

    breaking the law, yes. cheating, no.

    but HG's main point is that steroids were available to everyone just as speed was available to everyone so he cannot by definition be considered a cheat, because they were both not tested for and readily available.

    Leave a comment:


  • west coast orange and black
    replied
    to single out a retired player serves no real purpose other than sensationalism.

    baseball can not go back and examine every single player. what would that achieve? what's done is done. active players are bound to the work agreement. if a player is found to have used - per the work agreement controls in place - then that player is subjest to the penalty that the agreement prescribes.

    currently, that means a positive result of a properly administered drug test. anything short of that is simply not allowed. we can all acream and kick about it, but until the work agreement is changed...

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontarioguy
    replied
    Originally posted by aarond23
    And Tim Raines used coke on the field?
    When Tim's coke habits were at their peak, he was known to always slide head first when stealing a base, because he kept a tube/container of coke in his back pocket. True story.

    Leave a comment:


  • ESPNFan
    replied
    Originally posted by hiddengem
    He's not a cheater because they were not banned from the game when he took them. Everybody in the game was allowed to take them so they were fair game.

    Although, he absolutely took them to gain an advantage over his apponent, period end of story. Greenies make you run faster, throw harder, swing faster, react quicker and give you stamina that lasts longer. Often times you don't get jitters, with them that come along with high amounts of caffeine, but you become very focused on the task at hand.

    Ritalin is used quite a bit as well, and still is. Both pitchers and hitters take them to focus better.

    Baseball players that took steroids or greenies before the new testing policy were not cheating because it was fair game to everybody, although they were committing a felony by taking them in a country where they are illegal.
    Can you please explain to all of us how a substance that raises your standing heart rate helps you react quicker, swing faster and most absurdly give you more stamina?

    Leave a comment:


  • SideWalks Of Ny
    replied
    Originally posted by hiddengem
    He's not a cheater because they were not banned from the game when he took them. Everybody in the game was allowed to take them so they were fair game.

    Although, he absolutely took them to gain an advantage over his apponent, period end of story. Greenies make you run faster, throw harder, swing faster, react quicker and give you stamina that lasts longer. Often times you don't get jitters, with them that come along with high amounts of caffeine, but you become very focused on the task at hand.

    Ritalin is used quite a bit as well, and still is. Both pitchers and hitters take them to focus better.

    Baseball players that took steroids or greenies before the new testing policy were not cheating because it was fair game to everybody, although they were committing a felony by taking them in a country where they are illegal.
    Great post - You'll get no arguements from me.

    Leave a comment:

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