Mike Schmidt - Cheater ?

[ESPNFan]

Wern't you the one that wrote this? :






Actually I found that particular page to be quite accurate.




For the last time, nobody takes 20 tabs of winny a day. Give me a break.

Yeah I though you were wrong in your assesment of how I said Amphetamines work. Still do.
My point was that WIKIpedia can be edited by anyone. I don't care how accurate it could look I'd never refrence it. Third my comment about 20 tabs of winny was a joke. Hence the Pate` comment.

Try to ease up, there are other people here who know what their talking about as well.

Oha nd since you mentioned you worked out with House I'd like to hear what you think about him coming out about Steroids. Why do you think he did it?

[hiddengem]

[QUOTE=SideWalks Of Ny]

Competitors.

All of us are competitors, some of us choose to compete clean while others choose not to.

[hiddengem]

Yeah I though you were wrong in your assesment of how I said Amphetamines work. Still do.

Would you mind answering the 2 questions in post #42

Try to ease up, there are other people here who know what their talking about as well.

Maybe, but I have found very few on this board that understand this subject and how it "really" is.
And the comments about the players, greed, not liking fans ect. Yea that really pisses me off, because a great many of us work very hard to please the fans and do our part in the community. Many folks are ignorant enough to listen to the media and sterotype all of us based on a few jerks and or take one negative thing about a player and then just cast him off as a bad person, greedy, egotistical ect.

And then fans have the nerve to wonder why certain players don't mingle with them.

Oha nd since you mentioned you worked out with House I'd like to hear what you think about him coming out about Steroids. Why do you think he did it?

I don't know really. I suppose because he had a negative experience with them, and doesn't think they are worth it.

[ESPNFan]

Have you ever taken a real "greenie" from Mexico?


So why is it that MILLIONS of people used ephedra the right way and had ZERO problems. But the 2 guys you mention here, that had no clue how to take it, are the ones that died? You tell me?

Id be happy to answer the questions for you.

First I wouldn't take ANYTHING that was obtained over the counter from Mexico. Who knows whaty it was laced with. I don't know why this makes a difference. My wife is Brazilian and when we go there i try to bring most medications that I think I'll need with me. I just dont trust them.


Second: Ephedra was banned for a reason. Ephedrine is deadly because of how it works. All you need is a few other factors tossed itno the mix and your dead. And almost every amphetamine works in the same way so that can all be that dangerous. Im almost positive there were cyclists who have died from ampetamine useage and Stringer and Bechler weren't the only ones who died from ephedra. I know someone did animal testing on it. I try to find the results.

[ESPNFan]

Maybe, but I have found very few on this board that understand this subject and how it "really" is.
And the comments about the players, greed, not liking fans ect. Yea that really pisses me off, because a great many of us work very hard to please the fans and do our part in the community. Many folks are ignorant enough to listen to the media and sterotype all of us based on a few jerks and or take one negative thing about a player and then just cast him off as a bad person, greedy, egotistical ect.

And then fans have the nerve to wonder why certain players don't mingle with them.

Well I have a pretty healthy understanding both from the people and subject matter I work with (I work in medical research specificly cancer), and from first hand experience as an athlete in college where PED's were absolutely out of control.

And you know what I agree with you about athletes being stereotyped. Where I work we have RedSox coming in to see people all the time. The work these guys do is amazing and this is in addition to their jobs and family life. People who get bent out of shape because they don't get an autograph or someone can't have a conversation with them need to get a clue.

I have a particular dislike for the media and the way they portray certain people, especially here in Boston (yes you Bob Ryan and Dan Shaunassey). But you can't discount them across the board. I have a few friends who work in the media and mostly their good people.
And anyone that takes one athlete and paints everyone with the same brush is a moron.

[SideWalks Of Ny]

[QUOTE=hiddengem]

All of us are competitors, some of us choose to compete clean while others choose not to.

By " clean " do you mean not any type of illegal drug at all, or just steroids and greenies ?

[runningshoes]

Yea that really pisses me off, because a great many of us work very hard to please the fans and do our part in the community.

I don't think too many off around here doubt that HG, but as you know the bad apple ruins the bushel, especially if it's left to fester like this issue has.

It's unfortunate but I think human nature has always dictated this sort of reaction.

In some ways it's unfortunate you guys have a union that prefers to keep a lid on your public opinions. I can't imagine there aren't a lot of current players who are outraged by the bad taste Bonds is leaving in everyone's mouth. I suspect their hands are tied.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I have no idea what bodybuilders you are referring to, or wrestlers. But anyway, body building and wrestling are entirely different from baseball, and wrestling is fake anyway, especially WWE.

[ What does the fact that wrestling is fake have to do with your previous statement. You make the claim that Bonds could not have done all that is suspected, taking multiple steroids. It appears your saying his body would have suffered to the point that he would be unable to go on. How do you prove that, you have no idea exactly what he was using, the frequency or the amount]SHOELESSJOE3




Bonds has been accused of taking multiple steroids AT THE SAMETIME, cow steroids, winstrol, etc, winstrol alone is an incredibly strong and dangerous steroid, to mix it with cow steroids ( which I dont see how it would benefit an athlete at all) is assinine, and would only hinder performance. It's possible ( and more likely) that bonds used multiple steroids but in moderation, at different times. The book specifies that bonds started to become a " professional " at using steroids, if this is true, he wouldnt have used multiple types of harmful drugs at the sametime. Giambi had this problem, and canseco even pointed it out. He pointed out that he looked bloated, and had a wierd shaped body, and what happens later is giambi would face multiple health problems, including problems that would threaten his life.And the thing is, I dont think giambi was using anywhere near the amount of steroids at the sametime as book states bonds did.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in673138.shtml

I say no one here has the knowledge of what Bonds could tolerate and what he could not. I choose to wait until more comes out, more details. There may be some errors in exactly what he was using and how much he was using.

[Mattingly]

* * *

And anyone that takes one athlete and paints everyone with the same brush is a moron.

It's not necessary to call people whom you disagree with--even if they're ill-informed--morons. If you can avoid any name-calling, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[sandlot]

There are no definitive answers to many of these questions. For example, right now I'm taking medication for a persistent flu, and it's very effective. Without it I couldn't work. But when my doctor gave it to me, he joked: "Be careful if you're competing in anything -- this is banned in the Olympics." Then I opened the paper and read about an Australian Olympic swimmer who had to drop out of a competition because he has a flu and can't breathe. The article said many elite athletes are now experiencing similar problems, missing meets and enduring lingering illnesses because nearly all of the most effective medicines for colds and flus are banned from many sports. Can this be right? That you and I can take these same medicines while driving cars, flying planes, carrying weapons, caring for kids, performing brain surgery, etc., but a competitive swimmer, gymnast, swimmer or whatever, can't rid himself of a flu that's wearing him or her down -- even when it's doctor-prescribed medication and not taken for performance enhancement-- because it'll show up in a urine sample? There is a serious mismatch here between personal behavior and expectation for others. When is it okay for me, but cheating for you? When I was student, we loaded up on caffeine, No-doz, dex and whatever we could get our hands on to help us cram before exams. Certainly that was not approved by the school, and I'm certain many of the students taking diet pills were not suffering obesity. Were we cheating? I don't think so. The campus was loaded with bug-eyed guys who flunked. You either knew the material or you didn't. Kind of like you can hit the ball or you can't. The history of baseball is filled with players who sought every advantage they possibly could, but would never get in the HOF without buying a ticket. Do I defend shooting people in the butt with steroid cocktails in the quest for fame andf fortune? No. I think it's dangerous, self-destructive and bad values. Am I against hypocrisy? Yes. Have a few drinks, then load up of coffee to drive: road cheating? Botox your wrinkles, enhance your breasts, nip n'tuck here and there, dye your hair: advertising cheat? Viagra: NOT performance enhancement? "Before you remove the speck from your brother's eye, first remove the beam from thine own." Now there's a ban on behavior worth keeping. End of rant.

[Mattingly]

sandlot, in looking to find out which things caused "false positives", as I understnad they're called, I happened upon a few sites which help athletes pass blood, urine, hair, saliva tests. Also included are drugs which cause "false positives", meaning they're not the drug being tested for, but have similar properties of these (such as poppy seeds for cocaine, I believe it is (could've been heroin, but I think it was coke).

http://www.passyourdrugtest.com/false-positives.htm

and

http://www.ipassedmydrugtest.com/false_positives.asp

[hiddengem]

Well I have a pretty healthy understanding both from the people and subject matter I work with (I work in medical research specificly cancer), and from first hand experience as an athlete in college where PED's were absolutely out of control.

And you know what I agree with you about athletes being stereotyped. Where I work we have RedSox coming in to see people all the time. The work these guys do is amazing and this is in addition to their jobs and family life. People who get bent out of shape because they don't get an autograph or someone can't have a conversation with them need to get a clue.

I have a particular dislike for the media and the way they portray certain people, especially here in Boston (yes you Bob Ryan and Dan Shaunassey). But you can't discount them across the board. I have a few friends who work in the media and mostly their good people.
And anyone that takes one athlete and paints everyone with the same brush is a moron.

Great I'm glad we agree, on that at least.

[hiddengem]

First I wouldn't take ANYTHING that was obtained over the counter from Mexico. Who knows whaty it was laced with. I don't know why this makes a difference. My wife is Brazilian and when we go there i try to bring most medications that I think I'll need with me. I just dont trust them.

Its really ok...Where do you think Mexican's get there meds from? The Pharmacia. Its not like you go into a dark black alley and meet up with some strange guy and he gives you a handfull of pills and you walk off.
No, you walk into a Pharmacy, and get what you need. I have a friend who is a nurse, she goes to Mexico all the time to get meds. They are much much cheaper over there. She's been doing this for decades with no problems to speak of.

Second: Ephedra was banned for a reason. Ephedrine is deadly because of how it works. All you need is a few other factors tossed itno the mix and your dead. And almost every amphetamine works in the same way so that can all be that dangerous. Im almost positive there were cyclists who have died from ampetamine useage and Stringer and Bechler weren't the only ones who died from ephedra. I know someone did animal testing on it. I try to find the results.

Oh give me a freaking break. Our country keeps Alcohol and Tobacco legal and it kills THOUSANDS of people each year. The people you mentioned that died, died because they used the stuff like idiots and had no clue what they were doing. They ruined it for the rest of us that took it responsibly.

Athletes in ALL sports have been taking amphetamines for DECADES now, literally THOUSANDS of athletes over the span of 50 or 60 yrs and you can't even give me 5 names of people that have died because of them.

[hiddengem]

[QUOTE=SideWalks Of Ny]

By " clean " do you mean not any type of illegal drug at all, or just steroids and greenies ?

I mean anything that is not banned from the game.

[Mattingly]

[QUOTE=hiddengem]

I mean anything that is not banned from the game.

So what about the "cream", "clear" and HGH? Are those so-called "designer drugs" (re their undetectability) currently not on the banned list? I'm not sure I'd call anyone using these to be "clean".