Mike Schmidt - Cheater ?

[west coast orange and black]

By " clean " do you mean not any type of illegal drug at all, or just steroids and greenies?

hiddengem: I mean anything that is not banned from the game.

hg, readers might interpreting the above as:
"if the substance was/is not specifically banned by mlb, then it was/is ok to use."

is this your position?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Players today could take a bath in HGH and have nothing to worry about. "I love this game !! "

[west coast orange and black]

yes. but also: players today would have to take a bath in hgh to receive any marked betterment.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

yes. but also: players today would have to take a bath in hgh to receive any marked betterment.

Agree to disagree. Especially when taking it with cattle roid and company.

[hiddengem]

[QUOTE=Mattingly]

So what about the "cream", "clear" and HGH? Are those so-called "designer drugs" (re their undetectability) currently not on the banned list? I'm not sure I'd call anyone using these to be "clean".

I'll just put it this way. As a player you know when you are playing clean or not.

[west coast orange and black]

sultan: Agree to disagree. Especially when taking [hgh] with cattle roid and company.

is it your assertion that 2005 and 2006 players continue to use steroids but pass drug screenings?

[hiddengem]

By " clean " do you mean not any type of illegal drug at all, or just steroids and greenies?

hiddengem: I mean anything that is not banned from the game.

hg, readers might interpreting the above as:
"if the substance was/is not specifically banned by mlb, then it was/is ok to use."

is this your position?

Its a tough call..I said in a different post that a player knows when he is playing clean or not. But I will say I was taking a suppliment a few years ago that was perfectly legal, sold over the counter at GNC and it was a "testosterone precursor" I had absolutely no concern at all that I was doing something wrong. 1) It wasn't banned by the game. 2) I could buy it at GNC. That suppliment is now banned and I no longer use it. I guess some might consider this "precursor" a Designer drug, I don't know.

[hiddengem]

sultan: Agree to disagree. Especially when taking [hgh] with cattle roid and company.

is it your assertion that 2005 and 2006 players continue to use steroids but pass drug screenings?

I think this is likely.

[west coast orange and black]

ok. thanx.

do you think that baseball ought to retroactively act against players?
take action against someone for using something that was an illegal substance but at the same time not disallowed by mlb? >>> mcgwire using andro, f'rinstance?

what do you suppose is the take by your fellow brothers on this question?

hats off for fielding these questions, hg.

[ESPNFan]

Its a tough call..I said in a different post that a player knows when he is playing clean or not. But I will say I was taking a suppliment a few years ago that was perfectly legal, sold over the counter at GNC and it was a "testosterone precursor" I had absolutely no concern at all that I was doing something wrong. 1) It wasn't banned by the game. 2) I could buy it at GNC. That suppliment is now banned and I no longer use it. I guess some might consider this "precursor" a Designer drug, I don't know.

Its a tough call but really I don't think its the players fault. Its basicly because the Government passed DSHEA (Dietary Suppliment Health and Education Act.) It basicly put the burdon of proof that a substance isn't safe on the government and gives the suppliment companies a free pass to market something until the FDA can get around to testing it. If you buy something over the counter until the MLB bans it your free from wrongdoing in my opinion.

My one exclusion to this would be the guys who used Andro before it became wildly popular. This stuff was used by the East germans in their state sponcered Doping program to boost the effectiveness of Anabolics. IMO these guys knew exactly what ti did and why they needed to take it and is very suspicious in my opinion.

And there is nothing at GNC that I would consider a "designer" substance.

[ESPNFan]

I think this is likely.

I agree as well. Look at howmany times The BALCO atheletes were tested by the IOC/WADA and there were no failed tests. MLB's testing leaves alot to be desired compared with their programs so the assumption is that more people will be successful at beting the system.

Also the craftiness of the Steroid designers is always increasing and naturally a step ahead of the testing. THG was a prime example of this.

And third the MLB has to make sure that they actually test for every substanc ethat they say is banned. Only the lab that they are using knows if they do that.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Its a tough call..I said in a different post that a player knows when he is playing clean or not. But I will say I was taking a suppliment a few years ago that was perfectly legal, sold over the counter at GNC and it was a "testosterone precursor" I had absolutely no concern at all that I was doing something wrong. 1) It wasn't banned by the game. 2) I could buy it at GNC. That suppliment is now banned and I no longer use it. I guess some might consider this "precursor" a Designer drug, I don't know.

Yeah, that's the loophole in the system, and why GNC is able to sell that stuff. Because like you said, what they sell isn't actually steroids, or really a form of cheating; but once it's digested and passes through the liver, your body turns it into an illegal substance.

[hiddengem]

ok. thanx.

do you think that baseball ought to retroactively act against players?
take action against someone for using something that was an illegal substance but at the same time not disallowed by mlb? >>> mcgwire using andro, f'rinstance?

what do you suppose is the take by your fellow brothers on this question?

hats off for fielding these questions, hg.

No problem...

First off, When all of us were using Andro, it wasn't illegal and it wasn't banned, so that doesn't really work.

But to answer the question, I do not think MLB should go after somebody that took ped's before they were tested for or made illegal by MLB. There are hundreds of players that have taken ped's before the policy.

My teamates would feel the same.

[johncap]

So..this is how we're going to let Barry off the hook, eh?

Der spinmeisters are hard at work I see.

Greenies do NOT enhance performance. In fact they DEGRADE performance. You obviously have a problem with Mike Schmidt. With all the slack the REAL cheaters, McGwire, Bonds, and even Sosa have gotten for USING performance enhancers, you want ot attack Schmidt for using something that didn't enhance his game that pretty much every player used recreationally during that time! Get a life! :atthepc

[runningshoes]

Greenies do NOT enhance performance. In fact they DEGRADE performance. You obviously have a problem with Mike Schmidt. With all the slack the REAL cheaters, McGwire, Bonds, and even Sosa have gotten for USING performance enhancers, you want ot attack Schmidt for using something that didn't enhance his game that pretty much every player used recreationally during that time! Get a life! :atthepc

What problem with Schmidt?

I'm saying people are using the Schmidt argument to justify Bonds cheating.

They're pouting that spin on it.

I really think you're having a problem with comprehension here.

You tell me how you came to the conclusion I have a problem with Mike Schmidt?

Did anyone else draw the same conclusion as johncap based on what I've written here?