Mike Schmidt - Cheater ?

[johncap]

What problem with Schmidt?

I'm saying people are using the Schmidt argument to justify Bonds cheating.

They're pouting that spin on it.

I really think you're having a problem with comprehension here.

You tell me how you came to the conclusion I have a problem with Mike Schmidt?

Did anyone else draw the same conclusion as johncap based on what I've written here?

First of all you ripped Schmidt elsewhere regarding this topic AND your opinion that he's not the best 3B of all time, and considerably less than that, in our Phillies area. So, the comment I made comes from a broader "COMPREHENSION" of your words than just what is written in this thread.

Your points have been very clear, and um, pointed.

[CrimeInTheCards]

Greenies do NOT enhance performance. In fact they DEGRADE performance. You obviously have a problem with Mike Schmidt. With all the slack the REAL cheaters, McGwire, Bonds, and even Sosa have gotten for USING performance enhancers, you want ot attack Schmidt for using something that didn't enhance his game that pretty much every player used recreationally during that time! Get a life! :atthepc

Greenies dont enhance performance ???????????????????

Ridiculous, an obvious apologist mentality. Ofcourse greenies help, Infact they help a lot. Any baseball player or athlete for that matter knows this, and that's why they've been used for years.

[johncap]

Greenies dont enhance performance ???????????????????

Ridiculous, an obvious apologist mentality. Ofcourse greenies help, Infact they help a lot. Any baseball player or athlete for that matter knows this, and that's why they've been used for years.

Um, no, you're wrong. They give you the perception you're playing better, but they do NOT enhance performance. Nor, do they alter the physique, build muscle, increase strength or stamina. They're more "recreational". Not in the same realm as steroids.

Mike Schmidt is the LAST guy I'd apologize for. All you need to do is check photos of him at any stage of his career and then tell me he did anything to cheat or give himself an edge. It's ridiculous to even discuss this in the same thread as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and the rest.

[CrimeInTheCards]

Um, no, you're wrong. They give you the perception you're playing better, but they do NOT enhance performance. Nor, do they alter the physique, build muscle, increase strength or stamina. They're more "recreational". Not in the same realm as steroids.

Mike Schmidt is the LAST guy I'd apologize for. All you need to do is check photos of him at any stage of his career and then tell me he did anything to cheat or give himself an edge. It's ridiculous to even discuss this in the same thread as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and the rest.

Ridiculous, you have no clue what your talking about. They are DEFINITELY a performance enhancer. I once wrote a 20 page paper about greenies in under 5 hours (thats including research) and got an A. I've known pitchers who've increased the velocity of their fastball after taking a dose of greenies. You are nothing but an apologist, and not worth my time.

[johncap]

Ridiculous, you have no clue what your talking about. They are DEFINITELY a performance enhancer. I once wrote a 20 page paper about greenies in under 5 hours (thats including research) and got an A. I've known pitchers who've increased the velocity of their fastball after taking a dose of greenies. You are nothing but an apologist, and not worth my time.

Awe, you hurt my feelings. Especially with the hint of what team you root for in your name! You rooted for a creep and a cheat! Don't try and take that out on the rest of us! I'm glad for your paper. I'm sure the five hours were well spent.

[hiddengem]

Greenies do NOT enhance performance. In fact they DEGRADE performance.

Yet another Typical comment from a fan that has his head in the sand.

[hiddengem]

Mike Schmidt is the LAST guy I'd apologize for. All you need to do is check photos of him at any stage of his career and then tell me he did anything to cheat or give himself an edge. It's ridiculous to even discuss this in the same thread as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and the rest.

He just admitted today that had Steroids been around heavily during his era, and he felt like other players were getting an edge over him because of them, that he would have considered taking them. We already know he took greenies to try and get an edge, he admitted that as well. Care to change your stance?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Yet another Typical comment from a fan that has his head in the sand.

HG, no doubt they can enhance performance to various degrees depending on the user. Espcially when someone is feeling well below 100%. If someone is feeling fresh and already alert, how far above 100% would you guess greenies can take them?

[ESPNFan]

Ridiculous, you have no clue what your talking about. They are DEFINITELY a performance enhancer. I once wrote a 20 page paper about greenies in under 5 hours (thats including research) and got an A. I've known pitchers who've increased the velocity of their fastball after taking a dose of greenies. You are nothing but an apologist, and not worth my time.

LOL so were to believe you because you wrote a paper and you claim to follow pitchers (not named obviously) and know when their on greenies and how fast their throwing pre and post amphetamines? Let me guess you own a radar gun too?

I really dont think you should be commenting on who's posts are wasting peoples time.

[johncap]

He just admitted today that had Steroids been around heavily during his era, and he felt like other players were getting an edge over him because of them, that he would have considered taking them. We already know he took greenies to try and get an edge, he admitted that as well. Care to change your stance?

And exactly what does that conclude? It concludes he was weak, and he'd admit that. So he chickend out on the "hard stuff" and took what made him feel good without the fear of the damage of the real stuff. There's a HUGE difference between taking body altering substances with KNOWN extreme consequences and taking mood altering drugs that provide the perception that you're excelling at something you may actually be faltering at under the influence.

Here's a clip from another thread here on this topic. And this is what I understand to be the case for greenies and similar substances:

"No doubt amphetamines made you feel faster, but were you actually faster, or did you just feel faster because of the increased energy?"

This is an absurdly ridiculous transference of blame from people who have been perpetrating an ongoing charade that only dopes accepted or are continuing to deny vs Schmidt coming out and saying what he said. No comparison. If you think I'm apologizing for Schmidt, good for you. In the end I really don't give a rat's petooty. I'm tickled pink that the real cheats are getting raked over the coals for this garbage, and nothing will come of Schmidt's comments because what he did amounts to ZILCH, ZERO, NOTHING! If he did cheat, it certainly didn't alter his VERY consistent numbers throughout his career, unlike the dramatic changes in the numbers of the real culprits. Talk chemistry all you want, cast aspersions all you want, the facts are in the numbers and in front of your eyes!

[hiddengem]

And exactly what does that conclude? It concludes he was weak, and he'd admit that. So he chickend out on the "hard stuff" and took what made him feel good without the fear of the damage of the real stuff.

He didn't chicken out on anything. I'm quite positive with as much of a competitor that Mike was and as much pride as he had (he admitted that he was very concerned about being the best in the game) if he thought his competition was better than him because of Roids he would have jumped right in. He says he didn't think this was the case, and thus the reason he didn't take them.

"No doubt amphetamines made you feel faster, but were you actually faster, or did you just feel faster because of the increased energy?"

Well, a pitcher on my team last year had never pitched above 91mph in his career. The first day he took a greenie he hit 93mph. How do you explain that?

[hiddengem]

HG, no doubt they can enhance performance to various degrees depending on the user. Espcially when someone is feeling well below 100%. If someone is feeling fresh and already alert, how far above 100% would you guess greenies can take them?

Let me just say that the amount of time a professional players spends at 100% is about zero. So a greenie will always make you do certain activities better; Running, swinging, throwing ect. But certain players don't like how they make them feel, just like certain steroids, greenies react to players differently.

[johncap]

Well, a pitcher on my team last year had never pitched above 91mph in his career. The first day he took a greenie he hit 93mph. How do you explain that?

A guy humping up because he's altered and hitting 93 doesn't mean he can sustain it. It also doesn't translate to being bigger, stronger, able to work out longer, rebound faster, and on and on. A 2MPH increase in peak performance is not a measure that that pitcher had gained any significant performance level that would translate to wins or strikeouts or anything else.

And, I heard it said in conjunction with his book release that Schmidt was afraid of the juice and thus stayed away.

[hiddengem]

A guy humping up because he's altered and hitting 93 doesn't mean he can sustain it. It also doesn't translate to being bigger, stronger, able to work out longer, rebound faster, and on and on. A 2MPH increase in peak performance is not a measure that that pitcher had gained any significant performance level that would translate to wins or strikeouts or anything else.

The same guy humped up many times in his career and hit 91. Why was that nights "hump" any different?

And, I heard it said in conjunction with his book release that Schmidt was afraid of the juice and thus stayed away.

Well I "heard" it straight from Mike's mouth. He said nothing about being afraid of it. He simply said if he thought his competition was gaining an edge over him because of them, he would have considered them. He didn't think they were, so he didn't seek them out.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Well, a pitcher on my team last year had never pitched above 91mph in his career. The first day he took a greenie he hit 93mph. How do you explain that?

Increased heart rate, adrenaline, and pushing himself harder than he normally would with no regard for what injury might occur? Just a guess.

HG, you never really answered my question. I understand that from spring training on, players are rarely if ever at 100%. I meant 100% in terms of the "norm" that you would expect. If a normal player takes care of himself, is rested, strong, and focused, how far above "100%" do you think it would take him. Don't you think the true benefits come when you really need the pick me up, and it really can just take you back up to the norm? Just tryin' to get your perspective, your opinion is always appreciated.