Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mike Schmidt - Cheater ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dude Paskert
    replied
    When I was young and working at TI in Dallas, I went on a stint on second shift and ended up spending a lot of time at the company gym. Met an older guy who was about 5'5" but very strong, and we ended up as spotting partners because they weren't many other people around. Came to learn that this guy had been on the British Olympic wrestling team and he had developed an interest in weightlifting way back in the '50s as a result. You should have seen this guy's ears, they looked like some kind of bizarre fungal growths...he told me that it was common to twist and box the ears while wrestling since the refs usually missed or ignored it and it was a good way to irritate and distract your opponent.
    Anyway, he helped found a weightlifting club early in the TI years that eventually became the fitness center where we met. He told me that the military press was THE lift back then and that you weren't really a full member of the club until you could press your own weight. Given that, Schmidt at 200lbs or whatever using his legs to press 230lbs does not sound like a mind blowing accomplishment for a strong baseball player. Given that these kinds of presses are awesome ways to hose up your back if you don't know what you're doing, it's pretty freaky to see a big star like Schmidt doing it with two spotters who look like they might have been janitors pressed into service for the filming. We had to do military press when I was in junior high, by high school it was dropped from the weightlifting regimen due to the potential for injury.

    I peeked at the video again and I think that Mike may have been screwed by his long arms...Frederickson was about the same size and his arms look to be quite a bit shorter. Ask me how I know long arms are a big problem with presses like that...
    Last edited by Dude Paskert; 02-08-2016, 08:49 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cap78
    replied
    Originally posted by Phantom Dreamer View Post
    Was Mike Schmidt in the news recently?
    No, apparently this is what we have resorted to here

    Leave a comment:


  • Phantom Dreamer
    replied
    Was Mike Schmidt in the news recently?

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr28
    replied
    Originally posted by Afterglow View Post
    Holy bump Batman!!!! Was knowing how much he could lift really worth doing this?:nosleep:
    I know right. I was wondering where the hell this came from.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Afterglow View Post
    Holy bump Batman!!!! Was knowing how much he could lift really worth doing this?:nosleep:
    Sure is. We must find ALL cheaters and purge them from the record books! :P

    Leave a comment:


  • Afterglow
    replied
    Holy bump Batman!!!! Was knowing how much he could lift really worth doing this?:nosleep:

    Leave a comment:


  • Reds5
    replied
    From own own personal experience I can believe that Mike Schmidt could lift what he did without being on steroids.

    When was 17 I was able to lift 210 like he did, and was I only weighed 168 lbs. I was real strong from doing farm and masonry work from the time I was 12 years old.

    Leave a comment:


  • drstrangelove
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Yeah it is a skill lift. Unless Schmidt spent months/years doing it he shouldn't have come near Ferrigno et al.

    What you're really saying is if Schmidt had spent time working on the lift he could have done as much as Ferrigno. I'm not buying it.
    No. I'm not talking about Ferrigno and Schmidt. The thread is about Schmidt and I am bringing in my own personal experience with regard to Schmidt. I'm talking about me and Schmidt.

    If I had been commensurately larger to equal Schmidt (by 40 pounds), a few years older and had training in lifting free weights, I would have certainly been able to do a 230-pound push press. It might seem like an unlikely lift, and I admit I might have been unusually strong for my size and age, but I did not do steroids, and I was not the strongest person I ever encountered at that time. I had a friend (same age) in judo (who was a linebacker at my school) and I competed against some West German Olympic wrestlers, and I had no doubt that they were stronger.

    I think the point is that it's not "that" unlikely in my personal experience where outside influences like steroids needs to be invoked. Yes, of course steroids can give you the same result, but it's hardly needed. Now had Schmidt done a 375-pound lift, I wouldn't bring it up. Totally outside my personal experience. But Schmidt had 24% more body mass and muscle than me, so having more training and doing an easier lift of 44% more weight isn't shocking or outrageous. Doing one 134% more than me, yes. 44%, no.
    Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-06-2016, 02:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Five foot, 8.5 inches. That equates to 6-3, 202 lbs, if I was that tall, so not far off from 6-3, 210, just pint size version. My body fat would have been pretty low at 16 because I was doing 20-25 hours of athletics a week.
    Still impressive but leverage/balance issues make it hard for taller guys to do most lifts. It takes more work to develop balance. Leverage remains a disadvantage.

    Schmidt push pressing as much or more than NFL players and surprising close to Lou Ferrigno is suspicious.

    Leave a comment:


  • drstrangelove
    replied
    Five foot, 8.5 inches. That equates to 6-3, 202 lbs, if I was that tall, so not far off from 6-3, 210, just pint size version. My body fat would have been pretty low at 16 because I was doing 20-25 hours of athletics a week.
    Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-06-2016, 02:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Yup. I was just strong from judo. And doing push ups (I would do 70 straight, several times a week in training.)


    My legs still would not get the weight from my waist to my chest. And I can't say whether it's instinctive or not, nor whether I used my legs or not, but the weight was not that difficult for me as I recall. My point though is that compared to me then (a 230 push press) isn't that grand a lift for a person who was older than me, outweighed me by 40 pounds, and while doing an easier lift.
    How tall are you?

    Leave a comment:


  • drstrangelove
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Yeah, it's a freaky achievement for a non-lifter. Free weights?
    Yup free weights. And really? I never thought a whole lot about it at the time or since. I was just strong from judo (which involves a lot of training that impacts the shoulders and chest.) And doing push ups (I would do 70 straight, several times a week in training.)

    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Nevertheless, dollars to donuts you were probably cheating it up with your legs. It's instinctive to do that and it takes a conscious effort not to.
    My legs still would not get the weight from my waist to my chest. And I can't say whether it's instinctive or not, nor whether I used my legs or not, but the weight was not that difficult for me as I recall. My point though is that compared to me then (a 230 push press) isn't that grand a lift for a person who was older than me, outweighed me by 40 pounds, who was presumably using professionally instructed strength training, and while doing an easier lift.
    Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-06-2016, 02:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Standing press. Thus far easier since I didn't have to get the weight up to my chest. Plus, and this is just as important, is I had zero weightlifting skill. I had never lifted it and I was just screwing around in PE classes. (It caused my gym teacher who happened to be the head football coach to suggest I try out for the team.) A decent lift no doubt, but not the stuff of legends.
    Yeah, it's a freaky achievement for a non-lifter. Free weights?

    Nevertheless, dollars to donuts you were probably cheating it up with your legs. It's instinctive to do that and it takes a conscious effort not to.

    Another thing to consider is Schmidt is 6'3" which would be another handicap. He cleared 240 on another episode, I think. That kind of lift is no joke. It's substantially more than his weight. Why is it an article of faith he didn't use steroids?

    Oldfield was on as much gear as Lou if not more. In a way both were human guinea pigs.

    Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Really, that's your opinion. First, you assume that everyone in the NFL used steroids. Second, you assume that the press (230 pounds is remarkable.) Third, you concluded based on your assumptions.

    The push press is a much a skill lift as strength. And that weight for a 210 pound man isn't all that remarkable in any event.
    Yeah it is a skill lift. Unless Schmidt spent months/years doing it he shouldn't have come near Ferrigno et al.

    What you're really saying is if Schmidt had spent time working on the lift he could have done as much as Ferrigno. I'm not buying it.
    Last edited by Mongoose; 02-06-2016, 01:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • drstrangelove
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    No way Schmidt should have been anywhere near the NFL guys, where steroids were already widespread, or Lou Ferrigno who could bench about 500 lbs.
    Really, that's your opinion. First, you assume that everyone in the NFL used steroids. Second, you assume that the press (230 pounds is remarkable.) Third, you concluded based on your assumptions.

    The push press is a much a skill lift as strength. And that weight for a 210 pound man isn't all that remarkable in any event.


    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Standing or sitting?
    Standing press. Thus far easier since I didn't have to get the weight up to my chest. Plus, and this is just as important, is that I had zero weightlifting skill. I had never lifted before and I was just screwing around in PE class. (It caused my gym teacher who happened to be the head football coach to suggest I try out for the team.) A decent lift, no doubt, for an untrained 170-pound 16-year old, but not the stuff of legends.
    Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-06-2016, 01:45 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Dude Paskert View Post
    This inspired me to find the video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGD_KMsfK2c
    Schmidt hit 230 and failed at 240. I think that Ferrigno actually failed at 290, but they gave it to him...but, remember, Lou was a bodybuilder, not an Olympic lifter. He was a very strong man, but clearly not familiar with the technique of what was basically the second part of a clean and jerk. Brian Oldfield, who was not nearly as pretty as Ferrigno but needed explosive power as a shotputter, did 310 easily and surely could have gone a lot higher. Tucker Fredrickson, a running back who had been retired for several years, totally owned Schmidt by hitting 260 lbs. If Schmidt had military pressed 230 I might be suspicious, but 230 with a lot of help from the legs is not insane for a guy his size who was well known as strong for a baseball player.
    No way Schmidt should have been anywhere near the NFL guys, where steroids were already widespread, or Lou Ferrigno who could bench about 500 lbs.

    Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
    I did a harder type of press (a military press) of 160 when I weighed 170 and was 16 years old. And not from doing weightlifting, because I actually had never lifted weights before then when I did that, but from doing judo. It's incredible that people think that a grown man weighing 210 pounds could not lift 230 on an easier type of press.
    Standing or sitting?

    Leave a comment:

Ad Widget

Collapse
Working...
X