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Which single season home run record do you respect the most?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Astro
    Are the parks really that much smaller? I believe the Yankee Stadium right field walls (might have been left field) were only around 300 feet from homeplate...
    Old and new Yankee Stadium.
    Attached Files

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    • #32
      Originally posted by plask_stirlac
      Pac Bell/SBC is a terrible HR park
      Actually, it's park factor wasn't that bad on hitters for a few seasons. It was 99 in 2003, 103 in 2004 and 98 in 2005. There's a few other years where it was down at 91 though.

      You'd need to see a park factor that only included lefty pull hitters with power, to be the most accurate. Pretty sure Bonds hasn't been hurt too much by his home park if you look at his home/road splits. Or maybe he has, who knows, right center there is quite a poke compared to other parks around.

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      • #33
        Home parks of course a big factor but away park distances should also be factored in. Not sure of park distance comparison AL 1961 and NL during Mac, Sammy and Barry's time.

        I don't think there was a hugh difference on average from the 1960s to the mid 1990s-2000s.
        Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-13-2006, 04:22 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
          Home parks of course a big factor but away park distances should also be factored in. Not sure of park distance comparison AL 1961 and NL during Mac, Sammy and Barry's time.

          I don't think there was a hugh difference on average from the 1960s to the mid 1990s-2000s.
          It may be impossible to calculate away park factors. I'm not just talking about combining all of the NL parks during modern times or AL parks in 1927 or 1961. You'd also have to see which specific parks these guys played in on the road and how often.

          Right now, guys play 19 games against each of their division rivals and their records, including which games they didn't play in, are easily attainable. I'm not too sure how you'd figure out how many games at Comiskey, Fenway and other AL parks that Ruth and Maris played in 1927 and 1961, respectively.
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Mattingly
            It may be impossible to calculate away park factors. I'm not just talking about combining all of the NL parks during modern times or AL parks in 1927 or 1961. You'd also have to see which specific parks these guys played in on the road and how often.

            Right now, guys play 19 games against each of their division rivals and their records, including which games they didn't play in, are easily attainable. I'm not too sure how you'd figure out how many games at Comiskey, Fenway and other AL parks that Ruth and Maris played in 1927 and 1961, respectively.
            1927 Yankee Away games - Park Factor - Dimensions (left to right, centerfield in bold)

            PHI - 11 (106 Park Factor) 312 - 393 - 468 - 393 - 307 (12 ft concrete)

            WASH - 10 (99 Park Factor) 358 - 383 - 409 - 391 - 423 - 378 - 326 (30 ft concrete)

            BOS - 12 (98 Park Factor) 320 (37 ft) - 379 - 388 - 488 - 550 - 405 - 358

            CHI - 11 (98 Park Factor) 365 - 375 - 455 - 375 - 365 (12 ft fence)

            CLE - 11 (101 Park Factor) 376 - 415 - 450 (just left of center) - 420 - 290(45 ft screen)

            DET - 11 (101 Park Factor) 340 - 365 - 467 - 370 - 371

            STL - 11 (103 Park Factor) 333 - 379 - 430 - 354 - 320 (11.5 ft fence)
            Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 03-13-2006, 01:12 PM.

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            • #36
              I do understand why people would become so upset over the steroids controversy. However, it's is not like Bonds and McGwire were the only ones taking something- pitchers were too, as well as a plethora of other hitters. I am not saying that this is necessarily right, morally or legally, but the fact is is that steroids were rampant throughout the big leagues during the era, and to single out the two record holders is perhaps a bit unfair. Also keep in mind that MLB did not have a clear-cut steroids policy at this time.

              I just think that, eventually, the "juicers" will be analagous to the "spitballers" of almost a century ago. While it is currently illegal and gave them an advantage, I do not believe that they should be banned from the record books because it was such a common practice during that era. (in both cases)

              Right now, I am going to have to say Bonds deserves the record. As for the most impressive accomplishment, I will go with Ruth's 60 in '27.

              Mark

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Mattingly
                It may be impossible to calculate away park factors. I'm not just talking about combining all of the NL parks during modern times or AL parks in 1927 or 1961. You'd also have to see which specific parks these guys played in on the road and how often.

                Right now, guys play 19 games against each of their division rivals and their records, including which games they didn't play in, are easily attainable. I'm not too sure how you'd figure out how many games at Comiskey, Fenway and other AL parks that Ruth and Maris played in 1927 and 1961, respectively.

                Well, as you can see looking at SULTANS post we do have the number of games played at away parks for Ruth, Maris and any hitter from those time periods.

                I haven't really compared the parks of 1961 to the parks of the 1990s up until today. I did look closely at AL parks in the 1920s ( 1927 in particular) and compared them to NL parks in the 1990s.

                This is all on average all parks factored in.

                Down the lines 1920s and 1990s were about the same.
                Power alleys 1920s parks a bit longer 10 to 15 feet.
                Center field, a hugh difference. I averaged out all the NL parks from the 1990s and compared them to all the AL parks in the 1920s and found on average the 1920s parks in CF were 40+ feet deeper.

                Just a small number of distances to CF from the 1920s AL parks.
                Yankee Stadium---------487
                Comiskey--------------- 420 from 1920 to 1925. 450-455 from 1926 to 1930.
                Detroit------------------467
                Fenway-----------------488
                Shibe-------------------468 from 1920 to 1922. 448 from 1923 to 1930 and beyond.

                These are some of the longer ones, others in the neighborhood of 420. As you can see there are no CF distances as long as those from the AL 1920s, that was the biggest difference, center field.
                Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-13-2006, 01:33 PM.

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                • #38
                  20s

                  I did not watch a whole lot of baseball on mlb.tv during the 1920s. With some of these ballparks having centerfield fences near 500 feet, were there a lot of inside-the-park home runs? Does anyone know how many in-the-parkers Ruth hit? Obviously fewer homers overall were hit, I was just wondering as to the effect of in-the-parkers.

                  Mark

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Pghfan987
                    I did not watch a whole lot of baseball on mlb.tv during the 1920s. With some of these ballparks having centerfield fences near 500 feet, were there a lot of inside-the-park home runs? Does anyone know how many in-the-parkers Ruth hit? Obviously fewer homers overall were hit, I was just wondering as to the effect of in-the-parkers.

                    Mark
                    10 inside the park jobs, and none of 'em were pop ups as hollywood would have you believe. He got triples twice on those, not HR.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3

                      I haven't really compared the parks of 1961 to the parks of the 1990s up until today. I did look closely at AL parks in the 1920s ( 1927 in particular) and compared them to NL parks in the 1990s.
                      Good work Joe.

                      Overall, down the lines might not be a big difference, but check out BOS, CHI, and DET down the right field line. Not only that, but many parks back then had netting, or concrete, or whatever other type of wall placed up when the fence was shorter than normal. FIr example CLE was only 290 in right, but had a 45 foot screen to clear for a homer. Eight feet higher than the green monster.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                        1927 Yankee Away games - Park Factor - Dimensions (left to right, centerfield in bold)

                        PHI - 11 (106 Park Factor) 312 - 393 - 468 - 393 - 307 (12 ft concrete)

                        WASH - 10 (99 Park Factor) 358 - 383 - 409 - 391 - 423 - 378 - 326 (30 ft concrete)

                        BOS - 12 (98 Park Factor) 320 (37 ft) - 379 - 388 - 488 - 550 - 405 - 358

                        CHI - 11 (98 Park Factor) 365 - 375 - 455 - 375 - 365 (12 ft fence)

                        CLE - 11 (101 Park Factor) 376 - 415 - 450 (just left of center) - 420 - 290(45 ft screen)

                        DET - 11 (101 Park Factor) 340 - 365 - 467 - 370 - 371

                        STL - 11 (103 Park Factor) 333 - 379 - 430 - 354 - 320 (11.5 ft fence)
                        Interesting stats. Where'd you get those from?

                        Since you include Park Factor, they seem to be listed differently from this ESPN link, which uses the following definition:

                        Glossary
                        Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road.
                        A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors the pitcher.
                        PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))
                        * Teams with home games in multiple stadiums list aggregate Park Factors.

                        If I may trouble you some more, can you or someone else please show Ruth's home and away stats? Not just HR, but BB, 2B, 3B, H, etc.

                        Thanks greatly for all the legwork you've done on this.
                        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                        Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                        THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                        Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I still think there should be seperate 154 & 162 game records, Maris of course owning the 162 game record.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            what about the 144-game season records?
                            why do those guys get short-changed?
                            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mattingly
                              Interesting stats. Where'd you get those from?

                              Since you include Park Factor, they seem to be listed differently from this ESPN link, which uses the following definition:

                              Glossary
                              Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road.
                              A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors the pitcher.
                              PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))
                              * Teams with home games in multiple stadiums list aggregate Park Factors.

                              If I may trouble you some more, can you or someone else please show Ruth's home and away stats? Not just HR, but BB, 2B, 3B, H, etc.

                              Thanks greatly for all the legwork you've done on this.
                              1927 Season

                              Code:
                              HR   Date      Game RuthInning	Opposing Team, Pitcher	       Men   Result
                              1   April 15	4     4	  1	Philadelphia, Howard Ehmke	0    W 6-3
                              2   April 23	11   11	  1	at Philadelphia, Rube Walberg*	0    L 3-4
                              3   April 24	12   12	  6	at Washington, Hollis Thurston	0    W 6-2
                              4   April 29	14   14	  5	at Boston, Slim Harriss	        0    W 9-0
                              5   May 1	16   16	  1	Philadelphia, Jack Quinn	1    W 7-3
                              6   May 1	16   16	  8	Philadelphia, Rube Walberg*	1   	
                              7   May 10	24   24	  1	at St. Louis, Milt Gaston	2    W 8-7
                              8   May 11	25   25	  1	at St. Louis, Ernie Nevers	1    W 4-2
                              9   May 17	29   29	  8	at Detroit, Harry Collins	0    W 9-2
                              10  May 22	33   33	  6	at Cleveland, Benn Karr	        1    W 7-2
                              11  May 23	34   34	  1	at Washington, Hollis Thurston	0    L 2-3
                              12  May 28 (1)	37   37	  7	Washington, Hollis Thurston	2    W 8-2
                              13  May 29	39   39	  8	Boston, Danny MacFayden	        0    W 15-7
                              14  May 30	41   41	 11	at Philadelphia, Rube Walberg*	0    W 6-5 (11)
                              15  May 31 (1)	42   42	  1	at Philadelphia, Jack Quinn	1    W 10-3
                              16  May 31 (2)	43   43	  5	at Philadelphia, Howard Ehmke	1    W 18-5
                              17  June 5	47   47	  6	Detroit, Earl Whitehill*	0    W 5-3
                              18  June 7	48   48	  4	Chicago, Tommy Thomas	        0    W 4-1
                              19  June 11	52   52	  3	Cleveland, Garland Buckeye*	1    W 6-4
                              20  June 11	52   52	  5	Cleveland, Garland Buckeye*	0    W 6-4
                              21  June 12	53   53	  7	Cleveland, George Uhle	        0    L 7-8
                              22  June 16	55   55	  1	St. Louis, Tom Zachary*	        1    W 8-1
                              23  June 22 (1)	60   60	  5	at Boston, Hal Wiltse*	        0    W 7-4
                              24  June 22 (1)	60   60	  7	at Boston, Hal Wiltse*	        1   	
                              25  June 30	70   66	  4	Boston, Slim Harriss	        1    W 13-6
                              26  July 3	73   69	  1	at Washington, Hod Lisenbee	0    L 5-6
                              27  July 8 (2)	78   74	  2	at Detroit, Don Hankins	        2    W 10-8
                              28  July 9 (1)	79   75	  1	at Detroit, Ken Holloway	1    W 19-7
                              29  July 9 (1)	79   75	  4	at Detroit, Ken Holloway	2		
                              30  July 12	83   79	  9	at Cleveland, Joe Shaute*	1    W 7-0
                              31  July 24	94   90	  3	at Chicago, Tommy Thomas	0    W 3-2
                              32  July 26 (1)	95   91	  1	St. Louis, Milt Gaston	        1    W 15-1
                              33  July 26 (1)	95   91	  6	St. Louis, Milt Gaston	        0  	
                              34  July 28	98   94	  8	St. Louis, Walter Stewart*	1    W 9-4
                              35  August 5   106  102	  8	Detroit, George Smith	        0    W 5-2
                              36  August 10  110  106	  3	at Washington, Tom Zachary*	2    W 4-3
                              37  August 16  114  110	  5	at Chicago, Tommy Thomas	0    W 8-1
                              38  August 17  115  111	 11	at Chicago, Sarge Connally	0    W 3-2 (11)
                              39  August 20  118  114	  1	at Cleveland, Jake Miller*	1    L 8-14
                              40  August 22  120  116	  6	at Cleveland, Joe Shaute*	0    L 4-9
                              41  August 27  124  120	  8	at St. Louis, Ernie Nevers	1    W 14-4
                              42  August 28  125  121	  1	at St. Louis, Ernie Wingard*	1    W 10-6
                              43  August 31  127  123	  1	Boston, Tony Welzer	        0    W 10-3
                              44  Sept 2     128  124	  1	at Philadelphia, Rube Walberg*	0    W 12-2
                              45  Sept 6 (1) 132  128	  6	at Boston, Tony Welzer	        2    W 14-2
                              46  Sept 6 (1) 132  128	  7	at Boston, Tony Welzer	        1    	
                              47  Sept 6     133  129	  9	at Boston, Jack Russell	        1    L 2-5
                              48  Sept 7     134  130	  1	at Boston, Danny MacFayden	0    W 12-10
                              49  Sept 7     134  130	  8	at Boston, Slim Harriss	        1	
                              50  Sept 11    138  134	  4	St. Louis, Milt Gaston	        0    L 2-6
                              51  Sept 13 (1)139  135	  7	Cleveland, Willis Hudlin	1    W 5-3
                              52  Sept 13 (2)140  136	  4	Cleveland, Joe Shaute*	        0    W 5-3
                              53  Sept 16    143  139	  3	Chicago, Ted Blankenship	0    W 7-2
                              54  Sept 18 (2)147  143	  5	Chicago, Ted Lyons	        1    W 5-1
                              55  Sept 21    148  144	  9	Detroit, Sam Gibson	        0    L 1-6
                              56  Sept 22    149  145	  9	Detroit, Ken Holloway	        1    W 8-7
                              57  Sept 27    152  148	  6	Philadelphia, Lefty Grove*	3    W 7-4
                              58  Sept 29    153  149	  1	Washington, Hod Lisenbee	0    W 15-4
                              59  Sept 29    153  149	  5	Washington, Paul Hopkins	3	
                              60  Sept 30    154  150	  8	Washington, Tom Zachary*	1    W 4-2
                              
                              * lefthanded pitcher
                              
                              Home Runs:
                              
                              vs. Boston (11)
                              vs. Cleveland (9)
                              vs. Philadelphia (9)
                              vs. St. Louis (9)
                              vs. Detroit (8)
                              vs. Washington (8)
                              vs. Chicago (6)
                              
                              Home Runs by Inning:
                              
                              First (17)
                              Second (1)
                              Third (4)
                              Fourth (5)
                              Fifth (7)
                              Sixth (7)
                              Seventh (5)
                              Eighth (8)
                              Ninth (4)
                              Eleventh (2)
                              
                              
                              Yankees were 43-9 (.827) in games which Ruth homered 
                              HR at Yankee Stadium: [b]28 [/b]
                              HR on the road: [b]32 [/b]
                              HR off righthanded pitchers: 41 
                              HR off lefthanded pitchers: 19 
                              Multiple HR games: 8 
                              July 8th in Detroit was Ruth's only inside-the-park HR in 1927 
                              Two Grand Slams: #57 and #59 
                              27 Solo HR 
                              His 60 HR drove in 102 RBI
                              I'm not a big buff on park factors, but you're right over 100 favors batters, under favors pitchers.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'll take McGwire's rookie record in 1987. 49 bombs in his first year? What are the chances we'll see that again? I seriously doubt he was messing with 'roids then.

                                Also, Cecil Fielder's 51 jacks in '90 (or was it '91?) get totally lost. How many years went by before he broke 50?
                                WAR? Prove it!

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