Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

the big hurt, and others

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Gwynn isn't above suspision in my book, although I do doubt he ever did steroids

    Comment


    • #17
      Bench 5, thanx for your kind and true words of thomas.

      he did admit to use during his teen years. and he did help to spearhead that 2003 white sox testing scheme in an attempt to trigger the testing clause of the 2003-2006 agreement.

      but the main reason that i created this thread is because, incredibly, there are still many who simply do not get it at all. they still do not know what is going on.

      in this case, a sports writer (!), pointing to thomas' physique and "good guy" image, flatly declared that thomas has not used. because of what we know of steroids and other substances, i find her position na·ïve.

      unfortunately, because of the availability of substances, the fact that they were not tested for, the immense pressures to produce and achieve, and other factors, i believe that no one is beyond reproach.

      when a player, though, (a fellow human being) tells me that he has not used, i do take him at his word until i can not, should that time ever arrive.
      "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

      Comment


      • #18
        RMB: C'mon I would without a doubt bet your life that Rafael Belliard never used PEDs. ... At least not so's it mattered.

        performance enhancers may have won a player or two a spot on a roster.
        that is huge, man.
        "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by west coast orange and black
          RMB: C'mon I would without a doubt bet your life that Rafael Belliard never used PEDs. ... At least not so's it mattered.

          performance enhancers may have won a player or two a spot on a roster.
          that is huge, man.
          I was just referring to his stats. But why the heck did Raffy stick?
          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

          Comment


          • #20
            Add to the future HOF list

            Originally posted by west coast orange and black
            .... because of what we know of steroids and other substances, i find her position na·ïve.
            ..... the immense pressures to produce and achieve, and other factors, i believe that no one is beyond reproach.
            Hmmm, I'd like to offer another beyond reproach player: Ken Griffey Jr. The man has done everything quite well (have you seen his WBC BA?) without needing any PEDs, and I suspect his slow recovery from his numerous injuries is another indicator of his clean slate. I guess that may be na ive in your estimation, but we differ greatly in that I want to believe everyone is not using, and hasn't used, unless there is compelling evidence to the contrary. More than just "his head looks bigger" stuff. I still think Canseco greatly exagerrated the percentage of dirty MLB players in order to sell books to pay his legal fees and fines, and I also think his grip on reality is tenuous at best. Junior, on the other hand, took a lowball salary to return to his hometown to play, is finally healthy again, and was one of the few bright spots in the Reds dismal '05 campaign. Do you think a 'roid addicted player would do anything like that, ever?
            Baseball is a ballet without music. Drama without words ~Ernie Harwell

            Comment


            • #21
              well, according to junior himself, responding to passages released from the upcoming love me, hate me: barry bonds and the making of an antihero, (jeff pearlman, harper collins, 9 may release) he did not use.

              i can not go along with your placement of "need". nor does the slow recovery rate point to non-use.

              i happen to not be in the "look! he's bigger! therefore he used!" camp. but there is very compelling evidence that hundreds of players have recently used. quite possibly upwards of thousands over the past couple'a decades.

              steroids are not addictive, so your question, to me, is moot.
              "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

              Comment


              • #22
                the "clean" list thus far submitted by bb-f members:

                1. frank thomas
                2. ken griffey, jr.
                3. tony gwynn
                4. ichiro suzuki
                5. zach duke


                is it just coincidence that these are "good guy" image guys?
                Last edited by west coast orange and black; 03-15-2006, 01:42 PM.
                "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                  Don't you get the feeling that if we were to truly know about everyone, there wouldn't be a league anymore
                  Yeah, probably not.
                  "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    People see what they want to see, and hear....

                    Originally posted by west coast orange and black
                    ...
                    i happen to not be in the "look! he's bigger! therefore he used!" camp.

                    steroids are not addictive....
                    I see your logic, and understand your position, but so many others use fallacious "evidence" to claim this player or that is/was a user of now banned substances. I'm no real expert, but some of the most powerfully psychological addictive substances aren't neccessarily physically addictive, and I think many PEDs, steroids and their derivetives fall in this category.

                    BTW, I did also offer in post #14 the names Tony Gwynn (he told me personally he never even was tempted to use the poisons he saw others abusing), Ichiro (Japanese culture has far stricter drug disciplines), and rookie phenom Zach Duke (minor league testing has been more strict and has been in place longer than MLB's rules).

                    interesting indeed that the list includes only good guy image players
                    Last edited by trosmok; 03-15-2006, 12:55 PM.
                    Baseball is a ballet without music. Drama without words ~Ernie Harwell

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      ^^ my bad, the list has expanded to a grand total of 5.

                      the only "evidence" that i have, because i have not ever seen a player use, are the words of players and former players. i have absolutely no reason to not take them at their word when they describe wrongdoings. what could possibly be their motive? besides, different players, at diffeent times, saying overlapping things.
                      Last edited by west coast orange and black; 03-15-2006, 02:20 PM.
                      "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by west coast orange and black
                        the "clean" list thus far submitted by bb-f members:

                        1. frank thomas
                        2. ken griffey, jr.
                        3. tony gwynn
                        4. ichiro suzuki
                        5. zach duke


                        is it just coincidence that these are "good guy" image guys?
                        Nope. Because about a year ago, Palmeiro would be on this list.

                        I agree with the posters who caution about pitchers and the 25th-man guys. Betancourt RP for the Indians, Alex Sanchez, etc.
                        CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

                        1920 1948 1954 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2001 2007

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Betancourt, I completely forgot about that, it hardly got any press in the first place, kind of bolsters this double standard thing.
                          THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                          In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            boof, if you want palmeiro on the list, then i will oblige.
                            there is no "would be", only "is".
                            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              My list would contain one name, Steve Trachsel.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I'd bet your life on, uh, Julian Tavarez
                                Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                                Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X