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Greenies = Steroids = Pine Tar

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  • #16
    I think you guys missed the fact that Pine Tar also helps pitchers to put a bigger breaking action and spin on balls pitched.
    Unlike most other team sports, in which teams usually have an equivalent number of players on the field at any given time, in baseball the hitting team is at a numerical disadvantage, with a maximum of 5 players and 2 base coaches on the field at any time, compared to the fielding team's 9 players. For this reason, leaving the dugout to join a fight is generally considered acceptable in that it results in numerical equivalence on the field, and a fairer fight.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
      Good points.

      MLB has to be squirtin in their shorts right now.
      Gross!

      I can honestly say that I do not help people hit home runs.

      Just to play a devils advocate on this issue, not everything that is against the rules is in fact "cheating". What I mean by that is that some things that are against the rules probably do not privide any advantage to a player. Specifically, pine tar and corking probably do not help a player perform. Steroids do help though.

      As for Bonds, even though he did cheat, you still can't remove his records or even suspend him just because some media outlet received leaked grand jury testimony. I mean, Sheffield, Giambi, Santiago, and others all admitted to it in the grand jury, would these people be suspended as well? How about those who tested positive for steroids inn 2003? Remember that in 2003 something like 5-7% of players tested positive, but those tests have been sealed under a court order. That is because the tests were private in 2003. If the results were leaked to the press would Bud want to suspend all those players as well?

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      • #18
        One last point (ha, yeah, right!)

        What about all of the people who would not vote Bonds in the HOF (talking about the actual voters, not average Joes like you and me.) I have heard no outcry to ban Bonds from baseball right now. Pete Rose was, of course, banned immediately.

        It just seems to me that if Bonds' offense was so severe that he does not deserve to get into the Hall of Fame, that what he did was cheating in the worst degree, then he should be banned. Now, you could say that he should not be banned but his home runs after '98 should not count. Well then, he should make the HOF anyway based on his first ten years in the big leagues, shouldn't he?

        And of course the fact that Bonds is a "jerk" should have absolutely nothing to do with his HOF credentials, as Ty Cobb was not exactly a paragon of altruism.

        The way I see it, Bonds can still perform, and more importantly, sell tickets, so there has been no outcry to ban him. After he has retired from the Giants and baseball in general, he will serve no economic purpose for MLB, and then the hypocrites can punish him by not voting him into the Hall.

        I just can't see how MLB can let him play this year, yet not let him into Cooperstown in seven years.

        Mark

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        • #19
          As I remember, pine tar...(the sticky stuff, not our esteemed colleague)...had a rule against too much on the bats as someone said because the balls would get dirty.

          The real reason, of course, was that the sticky stuff costs money, and heaven forbid players should waste the team owners' hard earned money. Especially if a batter gets jammed and a ball need replaced! A double whammy! They'll probably LOSE money at each game! (sheesh....)

          So this rule was not against cheating nearly as much as, say, wiping out the chalk outline around the batter's box. Let's go after those guys next!! :grouchy
          "Someone asked me if I took steroids. I said, 'No. I had a contract with Wheaties.'"
          --Bob Feller

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
            Good points.

            It would open up a pandora's box, which is why MLB has to be squirtin in their shorts right now. Don't you think they'd rather Bonds just go away so they wouldn't have to worry about all this? I do. It doesn't seem like they want to look at their mistakes of the past, and acknowlege how they let this thing spin WAY out of control.

            They're probably content to just go from here and pretend all this never happened, hoping we all do as well. But if and when Bonds gets the record, there will be no forgetting, not even for the most casual of casual baseball fans. The black ink mark will spread from Bonds to MLB and down through this entire era, even more than it already has.

            I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't fooled all by Sosa's fake smile, Mac conveniently leaving Adro right in front of 20 reporters, or their increased size being a result of vitamins and hard work. Many probably were and went right along for the homerun carpet ride.
            Isn't it better to get it all out front and center? It will come out over time anyway and its much much better to show a good faith effort to deal with the issue. Otherwise, almost all of the accomplishments of the 'steroids era' risk being written off or severly discounted. That is not fair to the non roid players nor to their fans who pay the freight and want value for their time/money expended. Otherwise, lets just make it anything goes ala the WWF.

            Yeah yeah yeah I know that there are advocates of just 'forget about it' as the fans are stupid and as soon as Barry and others start jacking in some monster home runs everything will be okay. While I recall HL Menken's famous adage that 'no one ever lost money underestimating the taste of the american public' has a ring of truth I find myself spending less and less time with baseball ever since the strike.

            Barry's pursuit of Hank's record under this cloud leaves another real bad taste in my mouth.
            Johnny
            Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
              No offense, but I stopped reading right here. You do realize that they're able to spend so much time in the weight room BECAUSE of steroids.
              I'm pretty sure using steroids has nothing to do with how long someone can work out... If I remember correctly steroids cause the muscles detirorate (spelling?) quicker, then after they are finished working out they become stronger after rest...

              If anything steroids would make you work out less, but become stronger than those who work out a long time (pretty sure LaRussa said this of Canseco when he was using)

              If I'm wrong, someone please correct me

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Astro
                I'm pretty sure using steroids has nothing to do with how long someone can work out... If I remember correctly steroids cause the muscles detirorate (spelling?) quicker, then after they are finished working out they become stronger after rest...

                If anything steroids would make you work out less, but become stronger than those who work out a long time (pretty sure LaRussa said this of Canseco when he was using)

                If I'm wrong, someone please correct me
                Yes, you are wrong. Not only can you workout longer, but you can workout harder.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                  Yes, you are wrong. Not only can you workout longer, but you can workout harder.
                  If I'm not mistaken, the reason Ken Caminiti was using steroids was to enhance his workout regimen while he was coming back from injury.
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                  Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                  • #24
                    Great thread - Finally someone with some sense. The simple fact is the HOF is infested with cheaters, this is a fact nobody can deny. Greenies, steroids, corkedbats, too much pinetar, spitballs, ritalin, etc, all ways to cheat, no doubt about it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CrimeInTheCards
                      Great thread - Finally someone with some sense. The simple fact is the HOF is infested with cheaters, this is a fact nobody can deny. Greenies, steroids, corkedbats, too much pinetar, spitballs, ritalin, etc, all ways to cheat, no doubt about it.
                      ritalin? that doesnt help you play baseball, i can speak from experience

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by blackout805
                        ritalin? that doesnt help you play baseball, i can speak from experience
                        Sure it does. It helps players focus better.

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                        • #27
                          Isn't ritalin for ADD or somethin?

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                          • #28
                            Would you remind repeating the question?
                            "Someone asked me if I took steroids. I said, 'No. I had a contract with Wheaties.'"
                            --Bob Feller

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by 2Chance
                              Would you remind repeating the question?
                              Funny.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                                Yes, you are wrong. Not only can you workout longer, but you can workout harder.
                                Let me rephrase, can someone with credibility tell me if I'm wrong... ie: someone with proof not just "NO YOUR WRONG IM RIGHT"

                                Thanks

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