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  • #16
    Originally posted by Taco De Muerte
    Him winning the ROY doesn't tell me much.

    Todd hollandsworth won the ROY, and look what happened to him...
    Ok....

    Bobby Crosby is a power hitting SS who is capable of around 30 homeruns, 100 RBIs, an OPS of .900 and could win the Gold Glove...

    He won the ROY in 2004, many players start to break out around their 3rd year in the majors... and if the A's are going to win he is going to need to do well, thus making him an MVP canidate

    Baseball Prospects 2006 excerpt on Crosby: "Crosby does virtually everything well on the baseball field. He combines a great jump with good lateral movement, starts the deuce with aplomb, and rounds out the package with a valuable and balanced offensive profile. The strikeouts were a problem in his first trip through the bigs, but he cut his K rate by 45% last season. Both of last year's injuries were random-he broke a rib on a spring training HBP, and an ankle when he ran into Sal Fasano-so you can't even criticize his durability."

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Astro
      Ok....

      Bobby Crosby is a power hitting SS who is capable of around 30 homeruns, 100 RBIs, an OPS of .900 and could win the Gold Glove...

      He won the ROY in 2004, many players start to break out around their 3rd year in the majors... and if the A's are going to win he is going to need to do well, thus making him an MVP canidate
      Look man, I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, but there are other guy's who have PROVEN they are able to produce at an elite form. Perelta, howard, cabrera, these young players have proven they are capable of very good seasons. These guy's, IMO, are much more likely to produce at a much higher level compared to crosby.

      I could fathom one " expert " picking him for the AL MVP, but three ?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Taco De Muerte
        Look man, I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, but there are other guy's who have PROVEN they are able to produce at an elite form. Perelta, howard, cabrera, these young players have proven they are capable of very good seasons. These guy's, IMO, are much more likely to produce at a much higher level compared to crosby.

        I could fathom one " expert " picking him for the AL MVP, but three ?
        I dont get what you're going on about...

        You asked in the original post what they saw in him, people have told you yet you continue to bash him...

        It doesnt really seem to me that you want to know why people picked him, but want to say how dumb of a pick it is... thats fine, but dont ask what they see in him then when people tell you why they picked him you just ignore what they say...

        And to address Peralta, Howard and Cabrera... Peralta and Howard are in their sophomore seasons, these seasons normally are much lower than their rookie seasons due to pitchers adjusting to their weakness, and if they can not adjust they fair badly...

        Cabrera is on Florida who will not even have a winning record this season, thus taking him out of MVP consideration unless he posts extremly good numbers.. and with little protection he wont have much of a chance

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Taco De Muerte
          Him winning the ROY doesn't tell me much.

          Todd hollandsworth won the ROY, and look what happened to him...
          Hmmm in your efforts to pick out Todd Hollandsworth (1996) you seemed to have looked over the following players how have also won ROY honors:
          NL
          Scott Roland
          Kerry Wood
          Scott Williamson
          Rafeal Furcal
          Albert Pujols
          Jason Jennings
          Dontrelle Willis
          Jason Bay
          Ryan Howard

          AL
          Derek Jeter
          Nomar Garciaparra
          Ben Grieve
          Carlos Beltran
          Kazuhiro Sasaki
          Ichiro Suzuki
          Eric Hinske
          Angel Berroa
          The already mentioned Crosby
          Huston Street.

          Now given that history since 1996 I'm willing to bet that Crosby turns out more than alright and that Rookie of the Year more often that not is a decent indicator of future potential.

          Lets not forget that Billy Bean let MVP Miguel Tejada go knowing that Crosby was the heir apparent. Given his history in judging talent I'd say Crosby could surprise a whole bunch of people this year.
          Get out the Vote!!!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Astro
            And to address Peralta, Howard and Cabrera... Peralta and Howard are in their sophomore seasons, these seasons normally are much lower than their rookie seasons due to pitchers adjusting to their weakness, and if they can not adjust they fair badly...
            Wait Howard won the Rookie of they Year last year. Maybe you mean he is the next Todd Hollandsworth?? Or isn't he?
            Get out the Vote!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              That's great Astro, but it doesn't therefore mean it makes sense to predict an MVP season out of him this season. There are plenty of premier players in the AL... A-Rod, Sheffield, Ortiz, Manny, Vlad... There are several very good shortstops in the AL, like Jeter and Tejada. And there are even young shortstops in the AL that have shown more on the big stage, like Peralta. Is Bobby Crosby going to be better than Eric Chavez this year?
              "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Astro
                I dont get what you're going on about...

                You asked in the original post what they saw in him, people have told you yet you continue to bash him...

                It doesnt really seem to me that you want to know why people picked him, but want to say how dumb of a pick it is... thats fine, but dont ask what they see in him then when people tell you why they picked him you just ignore what they say...
                There is a big difference in seeing potential in a guy and picking a guy to be MVP when he's yet to really do much on the ML level anywhere close to MVP or even All-Star caliber. Peralta, Howard, Wright, and the like are more sensible picks because in addition to have potential, they've also shown a lot more than Crosby to this point. Look at it this way. Say you need to get to a rating of 10 to be in the running for an MVP. Based on what Crosby has done combined with his potential, he's probably in the 4-6 range. Now take a guy like David Wright. Based on what he's done and his potential, he's in the 6-8 range. That's a huge difference, and makes Wright a reasonable projection and Crosby a head-scratcher.

                It's also pretty rare that a player will suddenly jump from say a 5 to a 10. There is usually some progression, and Crosby hasn't really gone through that yet. If he's an MVP candidate, I'd say it's at least a year away and that this year would be the progressive year that puts him within striking distance next year.

                Also, not that spring training numbers often mean much, but while Crosby has had a nice spring, it's by no means been lights out or a forebearer of a breakout season.

                At this point, I'd project Crosby to be .275, 25, 80 for the season, with just 5 SB, an OBP around .350 and an OPS around .830. Certainly very, very good for a SS, and a nice improvement of his previous career numbers, but hardly MVP worthy. I'll be surprised if he tops .300 this year or 30 homeruns or 100 RBI or 10 SB.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Eric Chavez, in my humble opinion, is one of the most overrated players in the majors

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DoubleX
                    There is a big difference in seeing potential in a guy and picking a guy to be MVP when he's yet to really do much on the ML level anywhere close to MVP or even All-Star caliber. Peralta, Howard, Wright, and the like are more sensible picks because in addition to have potential, they've also shown a lot more than Crosby to this point. Look at it this way. Say you need to get to a rating of 10 to be in the running for an MVP. Based on what Crosby has done combined with his potential, he's probably in the 4-6 range. Now take a guy like David Wright. Based on what he's done and his potential, he's in the 6-8 range. That's a huge difference, and makes Wright a reasonable projection and Crosby a head-scratcher.

                    It's also pretty rare that a player will suddenly jump from say a 5 to a 10. There is usually some progression, and Crosby hasn't really gone through that yet. If he's an MVP candidate, I'd say it's at least a year away and that this year would be the progressive year that puts him within striking distance next year.

                    Also, not that spring training numbers often mean much, but while Crosby has had a nice spring, it's by no means been lights out or a forebearer of a breakout season.

                    At this point, I'd project Crosby to be .275, 25, 80 for the season, with just 5 SB, an OBP around .350 and an OPS around .830. Certainly very, very good for a SS, and a nice improvement of his previous career numbers, but hardly MVP worthy. I'll be surprised if he tops .300 this year or 30 homeruns or 100 RBI or 10 SB.
                    Ok... anyone can pick the obvious players such as David Ortiz, A-Rod, Manny, Jeter, Suzuki... the list goes on

                    So sue them for going out on a limb and picking a player who will probably hit 30 homeruns and drive in 100 if he stays healthy, all while playing gold glove defense...

                    I'm sure if someone had picked the Chicago White Sox to win it all before the 2005 season, people would have been asking these same questions

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Oh, here's the link to all of the picks: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/previe...=06expertpicks

                      The way the post was written it makes it seem like only 3 people made predictions and they all picked Crosby...

                      People are saying David Wright should have been mentioned... well he was picked by some experts

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Astro
                        Oh, here's the link to all of the picks: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/previe...=06expertpicks

                        The way the post was written it makes it seem like only 3 people made predictions and they all picked Crosby...

                        People are saying David Wright should have been mentioned... well he was picked by some experts
                        Where are Harold Reynolds picks? They weren't listed there?
                        Get out the Vote!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Astro
                          Ok... anyone can pick the obvious players such as David Ortiz, A-Rod, Manny, Jeter, Suzuki... the list goes on

                          So sue them for going out on a limb and picking a player who will probably hit 30 homeruns and drive in 100 if he stays healthy, all while playing gold glove defense...
                          But there is nothing of substance to base those projections on. It's just speculation. Crosby has done nothing in his actual career to suggest that he can put up anything close to MVP numbers in a full healthy season at the ML level. It just seems like a shaft to a lot of players that like Crosby are young and have potential, but unlike Crosby have shown a lot more at the ML level in terms of being capable of putting up MVP type numbers.

                          As for players that I would pick over Crosby to win the MVP (not counting pitchers) here's my list based on track record and potential entering this season:

                          Alex Rodriguez
                          Derek Jeter
                          Hideki Matsui
                          Gary Sheffield
                          Johnny Damon
                          Jorge Posada
                          David Ortiz
                          Manny Ramirez
                          Jason Varitek
                          Coco Crisp
                          Vernon Wells
                          Troy Glaus
                          Bengie Molina
                          Miguel Tejada
                          Brian Roberts
                          Melvin Mora
                          Carl Crawford
                          Jorge Cantu
                          Jonny Gomes
                          Paul Konerko
                          Jim Thome
                          Jermaine Dye
                          Travis Hafner
                          Grady Sizemore
                          Victor Martinez
                          Jhonny Peralta
                          Torii Hunter
                          Joe Mauer
                          Justin Morneau
                          Carlos Guillen
                          Ivan Rodriguez
                          Placido Polanco
                          Mike Sweeney
                          Vladimir Guererro
                          Chone Figgins
                          Garrett Anderson
                          Eric Chavez
                          Mark Teixeira
                          Michael Young
                          Hank Blalock
                          Rod Barajas
                          Ichiro Suzuki
                          Richie Sexson
                          Adrian Beltre

                          I'm sure I've forgotten some as well. I'm also sure that Crosby will pass a number of these guys (as will other underrated players in the league), but the point is that Crosby is a big reach. Even on just the A's, I'd say that Dan Johnson and Nick Swisher are just as likely as Crosby to bust out and become MVP type players based on their track records and potential. So why not pick either of them? Crosby just hasn't earned that kind of mammoth projection at this point in his career.
                          Last edited by DoubleX; 04-02-2006, 10:45 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DoubleX
                            But there is nothing of substance to base those projections on. It's just speculation. Crosby has done nothing in his actual career to suggest that he can put up anything close to MVP numbers in a full healthy season at the ML level. It just seems like a shaft to a lot of players that like Crosby are young and have potential, but unlike Crosby have shown a lot more at the ML level in terms of being capable of putting up MVP type numbers.

                            As for players that I would pick over Crosby to win the MVP (not counting pitchers) here's my list based on track record and potential entering this season:

                            Alex Rodriguez
                            Derek Jeter
                            Hideki Matsui
                            Gary Sheffield
                            Johnny Damon
                            Jorge Posada
                            David Ortiz
                            Manny Ramirez
                            Jason Varitek
                            Coco Crisp
                            Vernon Wells
                            Troy Glaus
                            Bengie Molina
                            Miguel Tejada
                            Brian Roberts
                            Melvin Mora
                            Carl Crawford
                            Jorge Cantu
                            Jonny Gomes
                            Paul Konerko
                            Jim Thome
                            Jermaine Dye
                            Travis Hafner
                            Grady Sizemore
                            Victor Martinez
                            Jhonny Peralta
                            Torii Hunter
                            Joe Mauer
                            Justin Morneau
                            Carlos Guillen
                            Ivan Rodriguez
                            Placido Polanco
                            Mike Sweeney
                            Vladimir Guererro
                            Chone Figgins
                            Garrett Anderson
                            Eric Chavez
                            Mark Teixeira
                            Michael Young
                            Hank Blalock
                            Rod Barajas
                            Ichiro Suzuki
                            Richie Sexson
                            Adrian Beltre

                            I'm sure I've forgotten some as well. I'm also sure that Crosby will pass a number of these guys (as will other underrated players in the league), but the point is that Crosby is a big reach.
                            Last time I checked, when you make pre-season predictions on who will win post-season awards it's usually on speculation

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Astro
                              Last time I checked, when you make pre-season predictions on who will win post-season awards it's usually on speculation
                              So I guess track-record means absolutely nothing? There's a difference between speculation and educated guesses. Crosby for MVP is a poorly educated guess at best. Like I said, at this point, there is little reason to pick Crosby even over his own teammates like Dan Johnson and Nick Swisher, because based on potential and track record, they're probably just as likely to bust out and have an MVP type season as Crosby is this year.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DoubleX
                                So I guess track-record means absolutely nothing? There's a difference between speculation and educated guesses. Crosby for MVP is a poorly educated guess at best. Like I said, at this point, there is little reason to pick Crosby even over his own teammates like Dan Johnson and Nick Swisher, because based on potential and track record, they're probably just as likely to bust out and have an MVP type season as Crosby is this year.
                                2004 Rookie of the Year, significant improvement in sophomore season over rookie campaign... very strong minor league numbers

                                I mean I cant go out and prove he is only to win the MVP, which is apparently what you guys want me to do, but you cant prove he has no chance either... He has all the intangibles to put up MVP-type numbers... I like them going out and picking someone new, instead of the same 5 people

                                I'm tired of argueing with you on something that wont be proven until December... so I guess we can talk about it again then

                                Comment

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