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  • #31
    Elvis, I loved that analogy. That was a superb way of describing it.

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    • #32
      runningshoes53: I guess I just have a deep respect for what Aaron went through to break Ruth's record.
      what aaron went through is a painful thing still.
      but aaron aurpassing 714 is only part of the story.


      And as for my incomplete sentence...try not to be so cryptic; we don't reside in your mind.
      so why, instead of asking, did you assume to know?

      And I ask only one thing of you: Please don't ask me to complete your thoughts with my sentences.
      i have not ever and not ever will.
      "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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      • #33
        Elvis9045: I think your main beef is that lots of guys cheated so why is everyone hating on Bonds - it's unfair, right?

        actually, no. that's not it at all.

        your bonds/statue of liberty scenario falls flat because you happen to include one small but very critical assumption: that aaron played clean throughout his entire career.

        unless... you believe that even if aaron did use, bonds' use is somehow worse.
        that would be your prerogative, tough.
        "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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        • #34
          runningshoes53: To be totally honest, I had no idea McGuire was using steroids when chasing Maris and if I had known that I would have been just as outraged as I am now.

          your honesty is apprciated, man. at least you are open to the idea that the mainstream is not always aware...

          McGuire, or anyone else who used, does not belong in the HOF.

          of who has done what, in what quantities, and for how long.

          I don't equate steroids with amphetamines so the "everyone else was cheating" argument doesn't wash with me.

          ok. good to see that you have taken a stand. but:
          1. what, then, to the notion that the players who took amphetamines when steroids were not widespreadly available were taking the most potent substance available to them?
          is it not reasonable to think that if available, other, stronger substances (steroids) were available then they would have been taken by the players who at the time were using the strongest stuff that they could find?

          2. does it matter to you at all who was taking the amphetamines in the 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s?
          "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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          • #35
            Ok this is pointless... its the same argument over and over between different topics

            Person A: Bonds cheated and shouldnt be in the HoF
            Person B: Most people in the HoF cheated
            Person A: I dont care if they cheated, he took steroids those are worse
            Person B: Cheating is cheating

            Over and over and over...

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            • #36
              Originally posted by west coast orange and black
              And as for my incomplete sentence...try not to be so cryptic; we don't reside in your mind.
              so why, instead of asking, did you assume to know?
              Well, I must say, i was a bit taken aback that you resorted to "grammar lessons"...it didn't seem like the kind of thing you'd usually do. But, that really is what it appeared to be, so I think it's fair that readers would assume to know.
              That being said, I now understand what you were saying, and my respect (for what it's worth) for you is restored!
              But, hey, try not to be so cryptic, eh?

              Originally posted by Astro
              Ok this is pointless... its the same argument over and over between different topics

              Person A: Bonds cheated and shouldnt be in the HoF
              Person B: Most people in the HoF cheated
              Person A: I dont care if they cheated, he took steroids those are worse
              Person B: Cheating is cheating

              Over and over and over...
              I think this nails it.
              "He can get 10 hits in five at-bats." -Joe Torre, exasperated after seeing Ichiro hit a routine ground ball to shortstop and cross first with an infield single.
              sigpic

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              • #37
                sweet lou, appearances being what they are, there could indeed be a lesson to be learned... by both writer and reader. so, thanx.

                i must offer, though, that one person's *cryptic* is another's *subtle*.

                maybe i oughtta write with my hammer + chisel from time to time...
                "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                • #38
                  because to me, this:

                  Person A: Bonds cheated and shouldnt be in the HoF
                  Person B: Most people in the HoF cheated
                  Person A: I dont care if they cheated, he took steroids those are worse
                  Person B: Cheating is cheating


                  does not come close to "nailing it".
                  to me, the argument is not that "cheating is cheating".
                  or that "steroids are worse than fill-in-the-blank".
                  or that some members of the hof used illegal drugs.

                  for me, the conversation oughtta at least include *what is known* instead of *what is supposed*.
                  "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                  • #39
                    Doesn't anyone know that any discussions about Bonds in a way promotes Bonds. Even if you bad mouth Bonds, your mind is still on Bonds and that's what he wants. Best thing to do is to ignore him. The topic is so drawn out that I begin to not care whether he did or not use steroids. He is really an attention-hogging rat. (i.e. Bonds on Bonds TV show)
                    4th Member of the Peter Moylan Fan Club!!!! :gt

                    Creator of the Guess The Player Game
                    http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=63675

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