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Who do some baseball pundits believe the 300-game winner will go extinct?

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  • Who do some baseball pundits believe the 300-game winner will go extinct?

    I hear from time to time. I don't get it. Why would the 300 game winner go extinct?
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Yeah I never understood that either it's not like Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson pitched in 4 man rotations. Even Mike Mussina woulda gotten 300 had he stuck around 2 more years. The only thing I can think of is maybe pitchers today have more of a pitch count so they will be yanked after a 100 pitches with the score tied. I think Verlander and Sabathia and maybe even Halladay have decent chances of reaching 300.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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    • #3
      Shorter outings obviously means fewer wins for starters, but fewer pitches thrown in each game should lead to longer careers. Plus, Tommy John surgery and other medical advances should also extend careers.

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      • #4
        Since the Sabermetric mindset is now apparently that wins are a function of the team and not the pitcher, who cares?
        They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
          Since the Sabermetric mindset is now apparently that wins are a function of the team and not the pitcher, who cares?
          A conundrum wrapped in an enigma boxed into a riddle.

          And you're asking a good guy for that, basball fan and sabre-ite with Honus here.

          Me, I stopped thinking about it before my head started to hurt. Am quick that way.

          But, some things like this are *magic* numbers, that even hard core sabres hold onto like a dear worn out raggedy old stuffed toy?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
            Yeah I never understood that either it's not like Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson pitched in 4 man rotations. Even Mike Mussina woulda gotten 300 had he stuck around 2 more years. The only thing I can think of is maybe pitchers today have more of a pitch count so they will be yanked after a 100 pitches with the score tied. I think Verlander and Sabathia and maybe even Halladay have decent chances of reaching 300.

            And also throw in John Smoltz in there as well. If he hadn't spent four seasons as a closer he would have had about 280+ wins given good health.

            This article inspired this thread.

            http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...0-career-games
            Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 03-12-2012, 01:21 PM.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
              Yeah I never understood that either it's not like Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson pitched in 4 man rotations. Even Mike Mussina woulda gotten 300 had he stuck around 2 more years. The only thing I can think of is maybe pitchers today have more of a pitch count so they will be yanked after a 100 pitches with the score tied. I think Verlander and Sabathia and maybe even Halladay have decent chances of reaching 300.
              It's not impossible but it is definitely harder. the names you mentioned all had to pitch well into their 40s to reach 300.

              walter johnson was 32 when he won no. 300.
              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dominik View Post
                It's not impossible but it is definitely harder. the names you mentioned all had to pitch well into their 40s to reach 300.
                Not true. Greg Maddux was just 38 when he got his 300th win in on August 7th, 2004 (born April 14, 1966). Given that, without checking I think all the post-WW II 300 game winners other than Maddux won their 300th game in their 40's. It's pretty much a requirement to get to 300 wins to pitch into one's 40's.

                walter johnson was 32 when he won no. 300.
                I think that is irrelevant. Johnson pitched in an entirely different playing environment.
                Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 03-12-2012, 05:21 PM.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dominik View Post
                  It's not impossible but it is definitely harder. the names you mentioned all had to pitch well into their 40s to reach 300.

                  walter johnson was 32 when he won no. 300.
                  Maddux and Steve Carlton reached #300 at age 38.
                  All other 300 Game Winners since Walter Johnson had to play at least until they were 40.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                    Not true. Greg Maddux was just 38 when he got his 300th win in on August 7th, 2004 (born April 14, 1966). Given that, without checking I think all the post-WW II 300 game winners other than Maddux won their 300th game in their 40's. It's pretty much a requirement to get to 300 wins to pitch into one's 40's.
                    Maddux also pitched 109 complete games, which certainly helps for the wins totals. He also hardly ever missed a start for like 20 consecutive seasons. Maddux is the exception, not the rule. I would be very surprised if another pitcher in my lifetime reaches 300 while still in his 30's.
                    My top 10 players:

                    1. Babe Ruth
                    2. Barry Bonds
                    3. Ty Cobb
                    4. Ted Williams
                    5. Willie Mays
                    6. Alex Rodriguez
                    7. Hank Aaron
                    8. Honus Wagner
                    9. Lou Gehrig
                    10. Mickey Mantle

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                      Maddux also pitched 109 complete games, which certainly helps for the wins totals. He also hardly ever missed a start for like 20 consecutive seasons. Maddux is the exception, not the rule. I would be very surprised if another pitcher in my lifetime reaches 300 while still in his 30's.
                      Yes, that's why I mentions that it's pretty much a requirement to pitching into one's 40's to reach 300 wins. Maddux and Carlton reached 300 wins at age 38. Three other pitchers reached 200 wins at age 40. Here's a fun chart I'll track every season.

                      300 Win Club-BBF.png
                      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                      • #12
                        I'd like to point out that Bob Feller would have reached 300 by age 35 pretty easily.
                        And Robin Roberts reached 270 by age 37... a relative rarity.
                        Catfish Hunter won 200 by age 30... even rarer.

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                        • #13
                          It's mostly journalists that have never played baseball in their entire lives like Buster Olney and Tim Kurkjian.
                          Using a stolen chant from Boston Celtics fans whenever an L.A. team is playing up there just reeks of inferiority complex.

                          If hitting a baseball is the toughest thing to do in sports, then pitching must be the easiest thing to do in sports.

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                          • #14
                            Wow so close!

                            http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...athebo01.shtml
                            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                              Yes, that's why I mentions that it's pretty much a requirement to pitching into one's 40's to reach 300 wins. Maddux and Carlton reached 300 wins at age 38. Three other pitchers reached 200 wins at age 40. Here's a fun chart I'll track every season.

                              [ATTACH]105906[/ATTACH]
                              C.C with 100 wins at 26. Wow! And 176 at 30, hes got a great shot at 300.
                              Last edited by PlanetZoltan; 03-12-2012, 04:47 PM.

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